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Final Fantasy XII Net Forums _ FFXII : World of Ivalice _ Here's Hoping for Another FFXII Spinoff

Posted by: wchoco32 May 27 2008, 02:18 AM

Here's hoping for another video game with the FFXII characters. I'm not even halfway through Revenant Wings but enjoying it so much that I've started a whole new quest in the original FFXII. It is good to know there is, at least, another Ivalice game (Final Fantasy Tactics A2: Grimoire of the Rift) coming out soon but let me just on record as saying: "More!"

Posted by: steiner May 27 2008, 08:35 AM

Final Fantasy Tactics on PSP and Playstation as well!

Great game.

Shame I cant play Renevant Wings or Tactics A2.

Posted by: Fox May 27 2008, 02:43 PM

I'm very very gradually getting thriugh RW. I'll be playing it alot in the summer when I have less access to my PS3 and the likes.

I also seriously love tactics for PSP, but I havnt got around to finishing it and its been months since I played, so I might have to start it again!

Posted by: Burrgle May 27 2008, 04:09 PM

FFT is definatly an experience. Personally....I would not want another FFXII unless it had a decent story (at least what I would call a decent story, lets not get angry at me calling FFXII bad biggrin.gif). But I would want another FFXII if it was a little bit more involved with character developement. I would like to maybe see a prequel about the war.

I do kind of like FFXII Rev Wings. But.....the battle system is tearing my eyes away from me. Its so much micro management and its hard to select a seperate character. But it is very good for a DS spin off. I am enjoying it...just wish the story was a little better. Vann is still is stupidly positive self....nobody is really changing...everyone has such a firm sense of themselves! I need inner turmoils in each character!! And for the record...I really hate Lyudd. I hope he gets shot soon in the game. Hes such a little bitch about everything.

But another FFXII....I think that they could make it good if they wanted...but I do not think that they will if they decide to make one. While FFXII(and RW) are very good games...definatly entertaining, I dont consider them very worthy of the name FF.

Posted by: N2Y May 29 2008, 08:35 PM

Here's Hoping for Another Main FF Title... No more spinoffs please... unless it's a REALLY good one for FFVIII. xD

Posted by: Burrgle May 29 2008, 10:58 PM

I could go for some extra FFVIII airtime. What I would really want to see though....is something like Adventures of the Four swords...but for Vivi and all of his Children! (Goooooo FFIX sequel!!!)

Posted by: steiner May 30 2008, 10:34 AM

...so long as they dont do Naruto voice for Zidane, and so long as they refer to Steiner as God...Im in. tongue.gif

Posted by: joesmith123 May 30 2008, 07:40 PM

I hope they stop all the FFXII nonesense and focus all their attention to making FFXIII redeem the franchise after the disappointment that was FFXII.

Posted by: steiner May 30 2008, 08:11 PM

^Well you're a republican who doesnt even like FFIX, so its not as if your opinion counts.

Posted by: Burrgle May 30 2008, 09:00 PM

QUOTE(steiner @ May 30 2008, 08:11 PM) *

^Well you're a republican who doesnt even like FFIX, so its not as if your opinion counts.


Ouch...but what does that have to do with anything?

And I didnt know Joesmith didn't like FFXII....he seemed to be the person who would adore that kind of game. But I guess I was wrong...if you do not mind me asking Joe....what makes you hate FFXII so?

Posted by: steiner May 30 2008, 09:17 PM

QUOTE(Burrgle @ May 30 2008, 10:00 PM) *

QUOTE(steiner @ May 30 2008, 08:11 PM) *

^Well you're a republican who doesnt even like FFIX, so its not as if your opinion counts.


Ouch...but what does that have to do with anything?

Oh yeah, and he likes George Bush.

The hate list continues.

Posted by: Burrgle May 30 2008, 10:47 PM

So..its perfectly legal for him to like George Bush....a lot of the country does...why do you think he got reelected? He is personally not my cup of tea. But this is not a thread for discussing politics....its simply adressing FFXII spinoff possibilities. So stop spamming fool! Keep to the topic. And dont be a hater tongue.gif

Posted by: steiner May 31 2008, 09:44 AM

No. George Bush fucking sucks. And Joe Smith is a moron who should jump off a cliff before he embarrases himself and his own pathetic, moronic country even further. Bloody tosser. dry.gif

Posted by: joesmith123 May 31 2008, 12:55 PM

This thread has become about my favorite of all topics...me. So lets begin.

QUOTE
Well you're a republican who doesnt even like FFIX, so its not as if your opinion counts.


It's because I am a republican who thinks FFIX is for queer Sri Lankans that my opinion counts.

QUOTE
Ouch...but what does that have to do with anything?

And I didnt know Joesmith didn't like FFXII....he seemed to be the person who would adore that kind of game. But I guess I was wrong...if you do not mind me asking Joe....what makes you hate FFXII so?


It has nothing to with anything...but steiner is a liberal and coherent points are not the strong suit of liberals such as him.

I certainly did not adore FFXII, for me it was a huge let down. My main problem was with the story since for me that is the driving point behind putting 70+ hours into any RPG. I thought the stories and characters were under developed, with a bare minimum of interaction between them. It didn't seem to me to be a whole hell of a lot between some of these characters to really bind them as they took on an empire. The lack of any true main character left the story without some focus, as we just got snippets about this character and then about that character. I felt the game started out strongly, but once you left Rabanastre it all went down hill from there. I finished the game and still felt like I knew so little about each character and about the world.

I hated how the espers worked and thought they were completely useless. The fact that all the monster hunting side quests did not give you any exp. was idiotic to me as if it did give exp. then it would have been a fantastic alternative to grinding. These are more minor points than the story. I had more complaints but it has been a long time since I played the game and my memory isn't working so well at the moment.

QUOTE
Oh yeah, and he likes George Bush.

The hate list continues.


I think you're going to feel empty inside when November of 2008 rolls around and you no longer have Bush to hate on.

QUOTE
No. George Bush fucking sucks. And Joe Smith is a moron who should jump off a cliff before he embarrases himself and his own pathetic, moronic country even further. Bloody tosser.


FFIX sucks, Sri Lanka sucks, liberals suck....George Bush just had a very difficult presidency.

Well America is no beacon of freedom, justice, and democracy like Sri Lanka. But we do our best to live up to your example. Just wait for the Olympic games in Beijing, and the U.S. will once again dominate as always.

Also, everyone knows that my intellect far surpasses yours steiner. How you can even enjoy FFIX shows how infantile your mind can be, while I enjoy the superb FFX which attests to my ability to understand more complex and mature plots.

Posted by: Burrgle May 31 2008, 01:45 PM

Coming from a neutral party, you both (stiener and joesmith) should lay off eachother. You are just stupidly attacking eachother for a reason that is nobody elses bussiness...especially not in a thread about FFXII. If you guys are going to argue...why not take it to a PM?

And as for my opinion....FFIX did not suck...I am sure Sri Lanka doesnt suck...and I am liberal......You both are just being blatently offensive with no purpose. Live and let live.

As for JoeSmiths opinion of FFXII...finally! Someone agrees with me. People keep telling me that maybe I played through too fast...but you Joesmith have restored me to my original opinion!

Posted by: steiner May 31 2008, 06:05 PM

QUOTE
It's because I am a republican who thinks FFIX is for queer Sri Lankans that my opinion counts.

Great argument there... dry.gif

QUOTE
It has nothing to with anything...but steiner is a liberal and coherent points are not the strong suit of liberals such as him.

Oh, you're one to talk you conservative bastard. See your above quote.

QUOTE
certainly did not adore FFXII, for me it was a huge let down. My main problem was with the story since for me that is the driving point behind putting 70+ hours into any RPG. I thought the stories and characters were under developed, with a bare minimum of interaction between them. It didn't seem to me to be a whole hell of a lot between some of these characters to really bind them as they took on an empire. The lack of any true main character left the story without some focus, as we just got snippets about this character and then about that character. I felt the game started out strongly, but once you left Rabanastre it all went down hill from there. I finished the game and still felt like I knew so little about each character and about the world.

The character developement was subtle. And you, being the typically narrow minded simpleton, blundering into business that isnt yours (like George Bush in Iraq), obviously didnt get it. Shame really. If both you and George had been a bit more perceptive, the world would be a better place. wink.gif

QUOTE
I think you're going to feel empty inside when November of 2008 rolls around and you no longer have Bush to hate on.

Well, at least I'll still have you. tongue.gif

And those classic jokes about him will never die. Then again, if he fixes those ballet boxes and changes the constitution he could be in for a third term.

QUOTE
FFIX sucks, Sri Lanka sucks, liberals suck....George Bush just had a very difficult presidency

No. Just no.

Shut up. What makes your opinion so great. Did God tell you that what you said was true? Thats what George Bush said, if I remember correctly. Very fun guy.

Oops, I mean very fundamentalist guy.

QUOTE
Well America is no beacon of freedom, justice, and democracy like Sri Lanka. But we do our best to live up to your example. Just wait for the Olympic games in Beijing, and the U.S. will once again dominate as always.

At least I dont have some deluded self pride and patriotism for my country. Sri Lanka is run by morons, so too is America at the moment. In the end, we're all the same.

QUOTE
Also, everyone knows that my intellect far surpasses yours steiner. How you can even enjoy FFIX shows how infantile your mind can be, while I enjoy the superb FFX which attests to my ability to understand more complex and mature plots.

laugh.gif

Are you serious? FFIX had a far more deep and philisophical plot. I dealt with issues surrounding the matters of life and death in a frank and fulfilling way. FFX was just some random (fun) game, with a script written by a two year old soap-opera addict. It had the total subtely of a bull in a china shop.

Lol, funny how I still loved it. But that was only because of Auron, a decent plot and a good battle system. Its still nothing in comparison to FFIX.

QUOTE
Coming from a neutral party, you both (stiener and joesmith) should lay off eachother. You are just stupidly attacking eachother for a reason that is nobody elses

Dont worry, me and Joe are only playing. We have a long history of banter, but its all harmless.







*sharpens knife*


ph34r.gif

Thats what he thinks.

Posted by: joesmith123 May 31 2008, 06:26 PM

QUOTE
At least I dont have some deluded self pride and patriotism for my country. Sri Lanka is run by morons, so too is America at the moment. In the end, we're all the same.


No, we are not all the same. U.S. > Rest of the world...Enough said.

QUOTE
Are you serious? FFIX had a far more deep and philisophical plot. I dealt with issues surrounding the matters of life and death in a frank and fulfilling way. FFX was just some random (fun) game, with a script written by a two year old soap-opera addict. It had the total subtely of a bull in a china shop.


Please, FFX is a classic. FFIX is garbage. It's not even in the top 5 for best RPG of its console cycle, so I don't know why you love it so much. I guess it's that same kind of poor choice in games that makes you like FFXII and any crappy spinoff.

QUOTE
Coming from a neutral party, you both (stiener and joesmith) should lay off eachother. You are just stupidly attacking eachother for a reason that is nobody elses


We are just screwing around.

QUOTE
FFIX did not suck...I am sure Sri Lanka doesnt suck


Yes they do.

QUOTE
As for JoeSmiths opinion of FFXII...finally! Someone agrees with me. People keep telling me that maybe I played through too fast...but you Joesmith have restored me to my original opinion!


I'm glad that I could help. FFXIII better be a masterpiece after SE failed so miserably with FFXII and then decided to make the next Dragon Quest game a DS title.

Posted by: Burrgle May 31 2008, 07:17 PM

Ohhhh okay! I wasnt sure. Then screw eachother away! biggrin.gif Sorry for interupting....

Posted by: steiner May 31 2008, 08:54 PM

QUOTE
No, we are not all the same. U.S. > Rest of the world...Enough said.

Im suprised an ignorant American such as yourself even knew there was a world. Most fundamentalist American conservative idiots seem to think they're the big cheese, when in reality they are inisignificant idiots living in a country that is far from special and contains the highest percentage of retarded people in the history of civilization.


QUOTE
Please, FFX is a classic. FFIX is garbage. It's not even in the top 5 for best RPG of its console cycle, so I don't know why you love it so much. I guess it's that same kind of poor choice in games that makes you like FFXII and any crappy spinoff.

Oh, hmmm, who made FFX? Oh wait, that was Sakaguchi. Do you know what Sakaguchi said about FFIX? He said it was the best game ever. What about Uematsu, composer of every final fantasy up to and including FFX? He too said that FFIX was the best game ever. FFIX is the true classic. FFX is for preteens who like cheesy dialogue and start crying whenever someone dies - no matter how poorly it was done.


QUOTE
Yes they do.

Why do you think that? I bet you dont even know where Sri Lanka is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8SuCBHqXtQ

These are the kind of people who represent your country.




Posted by: Chrono Jun 1 2008, 01:16 PM

QUOTE
FFX is for preteens who like cheesy dialogue and start crying whenever someone dies - no matter how poorly it was done.


Not as cheesy as Zidane's lines.

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 1 2008, 03:58 PM

Zidanes lines do not compare to the cheesyness of the laugh scene of FFX. FFX takes the cake in cheeseyness.

Posted by: Marblefist Jun 1 2008, 04:38 PM

LOL at the "banter" IMO FFX>FF9 and FF12 was great, the only qualms i had with the game were with the pretty thin story. However, the battle system and all round gameplay, side quests, freedom etc. easily eclipses past titles, SE finally fixed up a ever more irritating formula. Granted, the plot definitely suffered as they moved from there comfort zone (syrupy, far-fetched, bordering pretentious drama, which i do happen to enjoy lol) and tried for something more mature in tone. But, over a year on and im still playing it, clocking just over 140 hours.


Posted by: Burrgle Jun 1 2008, 04:53 PM

Hahaha...you just say that because of the voice actors in X. In FFIX...if you had voice actors...just imagine how entertaining the ATE's would have been! There were a lot of funny ones!!!

Posted by: Marblefist Jun 1 2008, 05:08 PM

QUOTE
you just say that because of the voice actors in X

That is definitely true to an extent, omd i wish tidus would just die!! lol FF9 voice actors would be jokes, i just have an image of them all sounding like cherubs lol Though all the past stories have been entertaining if almost annoying in there near mgs-standard of convulted storylines.

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 1 2008, 05:16 PM

But VAs in FFIX would be fun eh!?

Posted by: steiner Jun 1 2008, 05:54 PM

QUOTE
LOL at the "banter" IMO FFX>FF9

BLASPHEMER!!! mad.gif

You better say something pretty damn quick before I strike you off Steinerism for good. I mean, I dont think its even fair to compare the two games. FFIX is in a league of its own, far above mere games like FFX.

QUOTE
Not as cheesy as Zidane's lines.

Oh really? If you asked me to find cheesy lines from Tidus I could fill up this whole forum. I'd like to see you come up with even a few cheesy lines from Zidane.


I actually dont think the story in FFXII was that thin. I just think the sub plots were extremely well hidden that you could only garner what was going on by one line. FFX did the opposite and explicitly stated pretty much every little thing that was going on. I still prefered FFX's story, but if FFXII hadnt been quite so subtle and had developed its sub plots more, it would probably overtake FFX. 'Course nothing can even come close to FFIX. And thats the simple, unarguable truth. Case closed.


About VA's in FFIX. If they did them well, it would be Godly. But I got scared by the Naruto voice of Zidane in Dissidia. That just sucked.

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 1 2008, 06:39 PM

Well...has anyone heard the VA for Naruto do Zidane yet? It could be good. I remember when people cringed at Lance Bass doing a few lines for Sephiroth in KH. But he did a very nice job and his voice suited Sephy quite well. -nod-

Posted by: joesmith123 Jun 1 2008, 11:03 PM

QUOTE
Not as cheesy as Zidane's lines.


Nice. Another ally against steiner. A coalition of the willing as GW would say.

QUOTE
Why do you think that? I bet you dont even know where Sri Lanka is.


It's an island off the coast of India.

QUOTE
Zidanes lines do not compare to the cheesyness of the laugh scene of FFX.


The laughing scene was cheesy, but FFX as a whole is a superior game.

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 2 2008, 09:46 AM

Hrm....it is still a difficult comparison. Because as a superior game....gameplay is obviously a factor. And FFX was far too simplistic. I mean common. Wolfs/Lizards (Tidus), Flying (Wakka), Armored (Auron/Kimari), Magic Enemies (Lulu), Machine Enemies (Rikku). This is of course with the exception of the boss battles which are more about endurance and saving your overdrives. So gameplay wise...I think that FFX loses. FFIX simply had a bit more to it...not a lot though. Because RPGs are not that fun to play....its the storys that hook you.

And story wise...as a whole..Id give my piece to FFX. Even though I feel like it is decently shorter. It still covers what seems to be more a full story....wait....what.....now I am thinking about FFIXs story and it seems to be better....oh so close!!! I am not sure! The music though! Sets the scene for the game!

As for the music! They are very close. I have to say that there are a lot of FFX tunes that I listen to even now kind of obsessivly. But there are plenty of tunes that are just poitlessly obnoxious (ex...that terrible battle theme and boss theme) As for everything crisp clean and beautiful! Even though FFIX has astounding music. And a bit more of a theme to its music. Still...when I listen to FFX..its so magical...more so than FFIX...no one can deny this!

What about the world?! FFIX had a nice play on what was the rennaisance mixed with fantasy! Very nice. And it was something that we have not seen before. But some of it was very unimaginitive. For instance...Ispens Castle. Who cares....its a castle! They really didnt create anything new and different. They altered it pleasently though! It was relaxing and realistic to people in temperate climates. FFX....now that was a world. While a liniar one at that. It still was quite amazingly beautiful. And because not many people live on the tropics. It was a lot more refreshing. They created Zanarkand...common...that takes some cake.

What about the minigames!? Cards vs. Biltzball....Biltzball is far more impressive as a minigame, but it takes too long. Cards is an ordinary video game but it doesnt destroy your life from making you wait for about 7 mins in the goalies pants after you make your first score so you do not have to play for the rest of the game! Did anybody else do this stratagy?

(for those who dont get the retoric, basically...score one goal above the other team. Then you get the ball from the opposers. Last, go to your side of the biltzstadium and wait in your goalies goal. They usually dont bother you. I basically just kinda work out a little bit while Im waiting for the half to end. Pushups mostly, but I have some well developing pecs biggrin.gif)

But now that I bring up that point. At no point in FFIX game did it ever facilitate getting in shape! AH! Damn you FFIX!

FFX wins foreva biggrin.gif

Posted by: steiner Jun 2 2008, 06:29 PM

QUOTE
Well...has anyone heard the VA for Naruto do Zidane yet? It could be good. I remember when people cringed at Lance Bass doing a few lines for Sephiroth in KH. But he did a very nice job and his voice suited Sephy quite well. -nod-

Whoever voiced Zidane in that really short section of the Japanese Dissidia trailer did it really poorly.

QUOTE
It's an island off the coast of India.

Well done! At least you know how to use google. wink.gif

QUOTE
The laughing scene was cheesy, but FFX as a whole is a superior game.

No. Just no.

QUOTE
Hrm....it is still a difficult comparison. Because as a superior game....gameplay is obviously a factor. And FFX was far too simplistic. I mean common. Wolfs/Lizards (Tidus), Flying (Wakka), Armored (Auron/Kimari), Magic Enemies (Lulu), Machine Enemies (Rikku). This is of course with the exception of the boss battles which are more about endurance and saving your overdrives. So gameplay wise...I think that FFX loses. FFIX simply had a bit more to it...not a lot though. Because RPGs are not that fun to play....its the storys that hook you.

I disagree. I thought FFX's battle system was as good as IX's. Possibly better. Its in the story and character developement parts that FFIX blows FFX away in.

QUOTE
Still...when I listen to FFX..its so magical...more so than FFIX...no one can deny this!

Hell, I can! FFX was Uematsu's weakest score IMO. It just lacked the depth of the other FFs. Sure, it had killer tunes like To Zanarkand, Otherworld, Blitzball Gambler and Seymour Battle, but Id be hard pressed to find more.

FFIX was rated by Uematsu himself as his favourite sound track. So he disagrees with you.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/focus-on-final-fantasy-composer-nobuo-uematsu

Notice how he says without any hesitation that FFIX is his favourite musically and overall. The man's got taste. So too does Sakaguchi, founder of Final Fantasy. It seems that the people who truly understand what makes a great gaming experience agree with me. wink.gif

QUOTE
But some of it was very unimaginitive. For instance...Ispens Castle. Who cares....its a castle! They really didnt create anything new and different.

That has to be the worst example Ive ever heard in my entire life (no joke). That castle was the most imaginative castle in FF history. For a start, it was upside down. Secondly, they messed around with all the gameplay combinations so that weak attacks did more damage than strong ones. (equipping daggers increased damage a lot). Then they put in a bunch of traps and a couple of riddles. I dont see how that was unimaginative. And its not as if you spent a long time in it or anything. You can complete Ipsen's Castle bit in under an hour.



Oh, and JS. If you think the FFXII spinoff stuff is bad. Say that to this cutscene:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-Jhr9kikuNQ&feature=related

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 2 2008, 06:40 PM

I dont care what Uematsu thinks about his own music. I like something because I like it! If you werent hung like a light switch....maybe you would like something for you too. tongue.gif

Ispens Castle wasnt nearly as imaginative as Zanarkand! I mean common....floating water! EVERYWHERE! Waterfalls coming out of buildings..and people live(lived) there! And the lights were pretty. Ispens castle may have been upsiddown...but we could just turn Zanarkand upisde down and it would be right on par.

Posted by: steiner Jun 2 2008, 07:12 PM

QUOTE(Burrgle @ Jun 2 2008, 07:40 PM) *

I dont care what Uematsu thinks about his own music. I like something because I like it! If you werent hung like a light switch....maybe you would like something for you too. tongue.gif

Lol, my point was this though. You said;

QUOTE
Still...when I listen to FFX..its so magical...more so than FFIX...no one can deny this!

And my point was that yes they can. Uematsu himself denied it. tongue.gif

I mean IMO,

The Place I'll Return to Someday > To Zanarkand

Musically speaking, the polyphony is just amazing.
QUOTE
Ispens Castle wasnt nearly as imaginative as Zanarkand! I mean common....floating water! EVERYWHERE! Waterfalls coming out of buildings..and people live(lived) there! And the lights were pretty. Ispens castle may have been upsiddown...but we could just turn Zanarkand upisde down and it would be right on par.

...I dont know what you're talking about. I never saw that in FFX. I you sure it wasnt in FFX-2? Remember, they're different games so FFX-2 cant fit in the comparison. Which is lucky for FFX-2, because I heard that it sucked.

lol, upside down Zanarkand. That just wouldnt work. laugh.gif

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 2 2008, 07:44 PM

I could make it work! And you would realize that if you werent RETARDED!! biggrin.gif

As for the "no one can deny this" statement. Obviously an overstatment! Of course it is not true! It is an outragous thought to think that everyone agrees with me. The ones that dont though....are silly poopie mcstoopid faces. tongue.gif

Posted by: Chrono Jun 2 2008, 08:10 PM

OT : I'm not against Steiner. I was just stating a fact, that's all.

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 2 2008, 08:31 PM

Please Chrono, elaborate...tell the world exactly how wrong and foolish Stiener is with quotation and citation! biggrin.gif

Posted by: steiner Jun 2 2008, 08:47 PM

^Exactly.

@Chronos: You can find the full script of FFIX on GameFAQs. You'd better start looking. You may be there a very long time. wink.gif

QUOTE
The ones that dont though....are silly poopie mcstoopid faces

Actually, I think you'll find that the ones who disagree with me are the 'silly poopie mcstoopid faces'. And so, ironically, you are one of those very people of whom you despise. Do you see it now Burrgle? When you bared your sword against me, you bared your sword against the law.





XD, I quoted FFXII, just to piss you off some more

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 2 2008, 09:14 PM

(O).(o)
-dies of death-

FFXII.......the liquid splurging from a boil on the back of an aged walrus who has had sex to so many baby Dolphins that it makes our fishnets look good? I think so.

-SIGH!-
Only mommy killers like FFIX....are you a mommy killer?! biggrin.gif


Posted by: Chrono Jun 3 2008, 12:40 PM

Zidane flirting with the ladies. That's cheesy IMO. The way he talks to them. lol.. XD And the way he talks to his friends, sometime it makes me laugh really hard. XD Rusty... *giggles* XD

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 3 2008, 06:09 PM

Wow...somebody used an XD overload...maybe if you used less of them..people would take your posts more seriously!

....XD

Hahahah tongue.gif

But I in reality I dont think it was cheesey the way he flirted and talked....lots of people do that. Well...cheesey...but not the point of unrealism.

Posted by: steiner Jun 4 2008, 04:04 PM

lol, it worked. tongue.gif

That was good enough for him, so its good enough for me. I didnt think the flirting was cheesy.


QUOTE
-SIGH!-
Only mommy killers like FFIX....are you a mommy killer?!

YES! biggrin.gif




Anyway, I am seriously in love with Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions at the moment. The cutscenes are absolutely phenomenal. Just a pity there aren't more of them, because they make the rest of the game seem a little boring. (only a little).

I just keep watching the same cutscenes over and over again, they were done so well IMO. - Genius.

Then again, some cutscenes in FFXII were genius. Especially the bits at the top of Pharos, the opening and in Mt Bur Omisace.

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 4 2008, 04:29 PM

Dude...the cutscenes in FFXII sucked....it was just like...look at us..standin and talkin and shit. Oh? Theres a conflict...oh well...we will see no character devlopement...so well just not think about it and go our own ways once we stop doing thing. Uch...we all hate eachother.
...thats what the cut scenes say to me.

I loooved tactics! How is the PSP version? I didnt think that there was much different in it. But I saw one of the cut scenes..and the art work is fantastic! I love the way they handled it. Its simple but appealing.

Hmmm...-fantasizes about FF spin off games and goes to fan boy mode-
You know whatd be realllly cool!? If they made an FFX game based on the events that transpired in Zanarkand 1000 years ago. Make up some characters, throw Lenne and Shuyin in there (and maybe four seconds of Tidus) and then there can be Yunalesca and Zeaon! AHHH! It would be grand! And you could start the first calm! smile.gif

Posted by: Chrono Jun 4 2008, 04:38 PM

QUOTE(Burrgle @ Jun 3 2008, 03:09 PM) *

Wow...somebody used an XD overload...maybe if you used less of them..people would take your posts more seriously!

....XD

Hahahah tongue.gif

But I in reality I dont think it was cheesey the way he flirted and talked....lots of people do that. Well...cheesey...but not the point of unrealism.


XD

Well, when I was younger, I thought it was cheesy. That's all. beee.gif

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 4 2008, 04:47 PM

Hmp! I wish you had more of an opinion so that we could argue more.....mommy killer!

Posted by: steiner Jun 4 2008, 05:09 PM

Aww, come on. Zidane is a legend. He pinched Garnet's butt. tongue.gif

QUOTE
Dude...the cutscenes in FFXII sucked....it was just like...look at us..standin and talkin and shit. Oh? Theres a conflict...oh well...we will see no character devlopement...so well just not think about it and go our own ways once we stop doing thing. Uch...we all hate eachother.
...thats what the cut scenes say to me.

shok.gif

But the script! It was amazing. I mean, at times it was better than Shakespeare himself. The clash of wills, the complex emotions masked by few words, the subtle facial expression and just the sheer intelligence of it all. I dont get whats not to like.

Then again, the cutscenes in FFT are even better. There are less of them though, but they are all of very high quality.

QUOTE

I loooved tactics! How is the PSP version? I didnt think that there was much different in it. But I saw one of the cut scenes..and the art work is fantastic! I love the way they handled it. Its simple but appealing

PSP version is awesome. It was my first time. The script is like the script in FFXII now, which for me sounds really amazing. I think its a really great script apart from the occasional weirdness. The cutscenes, as I said, are phenomenal. I also love how you get Balthier - he's the strongest character in the game. Just edging out Cid (Orlandeau) in terms of strenth. You also get Luso from FFTA.

Oh, and there are a couple of new jobs. Im still trying to get the ultimate dark knight job.

QUOTE
Hmmm...-fantasizes about FF spin off games and goes to fan boy mode-
You know whatd be realllly cool!? If they made an FFX game based on the events that transpired in Zanarkand 1000 years ago. Make up some characters, throw Lenne and Shuyin in there (and maybe four seconds of Tidus) and then there can be Yunalesca and Zeaon! AHHH! It would be grand! And you could start the first calm!

No. Just no.


Ya know what would be grand though? If the folks at SE grabbed FFX, grabbed FFVII and shoved them down a toilet and flushed it. Enough already - those games have had enough fan service to last a life time.



Posted by: Burrgle Jun 4 2008, 08:59 PM

-SHIEKS!!-

Okay! One...you are compareing FFXII and FFT to Shakespere....um.....yea...youre dumb tongue.gif

Two...I always hated how overpowered some of the characters you get later on are....it was completely unbalanced! BOOOO!

And THREE! FFX....FFVII...TOILET?!?!??

Okay kiddo....it's Daddytime!

-drags stiener off to the closet!-

Posted by: Chrono Jun 4 2008, 09:32 PM

I rather play Final Fantasy X over XII. Even X-2 is more interesting in the 'characters developments' department. FFXII feels too Star Wars-desque. I rather watch the original Star Wars. Thank you.

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 4 2008, 11:37 PM

<3 Chrono. I love you...we should get married. He is completely correct, even the character devlopment in FFX2 was more exciting and interesting. Even the characters werent bland! All of them had such exciting costumes. And what did FFXII characters have?! NOTHING!

FFXII was a little too StarWars esque! I agree with Chrono....its almost like....a copy! SE is a copy cat!

Yea....Yuna had more personality than all of the characters in FFXII..and Yuna was the weaker personality of the three girls. And Rikku had more personality than the game. All of the characters of FFXII were so collected and wise. It was so annoying. Vann and Panelo were the only two interesting characters.....and that was ruined by lack of airtime. And Baltheir was cool too! But there were so many characters like the serious Ashe/Fran/Larsa/Basch/Vossler/Reddas tetrahedron. It was terrible. Uch.

In FFX2. One serious character who thinks shes realllly cool. One goofball. And one character burdened with a troubled past who is in the process of over coming it!

FFX2>FFXII tongue.gif

Posted by: steiner Jun 5 2008, 10:24 AM

^I think you guys were just too blind to see it. It was subtle. Probably too subtle for you.

Personally, I enjoy subtle character developement - even if FFXII took it to the extreme. I'm a firm believer that you can say so much with just a single sentence or face.

QUOTE
<3 Chrono. I love you...we should get married. He is completely correct, even the character devlopment in FFX2 was more exciting and interesting. Even the characters werent bland! All of them had such exciting costumes. And what did FFXII characters have?! NOTHING!

Oh, and Fran's costume wasnt exciting. tongue.gif

FFXII was intelligent, and it dealt with some complex issues. I very much doubt FFX-2 did that.

QUOTE
Yea....Yuna had more personality than all of the characters in FFXII..and Yuna was the weaker personality of the three girls. And Rikku had more personality than the game. All of the characters of FFXII were so collected and wise. It was so annoying. Vann and Panelo were the only two interesting characters.....and that was ruined by lack of airtime. And Baltheir was cool too! But there were so many characters like the serious Ashe/Fran/Larsa/Basch/Vossler/Reddas tetrahedron. It was terrible. Uch.

Oh my God. Are you serious?

I thought that Vaan and Penelo were far and away the least interesting characters. I thought Balthier was awesome, Basch's internal conflict was superbly done for the most part, Vossler's in going battles of alleigance was also brilliantly portrayed. Reddas as well was a gem of a character - 'I, Judge Magister, condemn you to oblivion!'. And then there are the Judges. Each of whom have their own motives and ambitions, while the Senate too are involved in their own games of power. You can just hear them testing their ideas, trying their rulers, worming their way towards power.

QUOTE
Okay! One...you are compareing FFXII and FFT to Shakespere....um.....yea...youre dumb tongue.gif

Hey, Ive studied Shakespeare. Im entitled to my opinion.

Personally, I feel that the script in FFXII is more eloquent than most of Shakespeare's scripts. I sometimes thinks Shakespeare tries too hard in his attempts to convey metaphors and allegorys. And sometimes his manipulation of the language to achieve iambic pentameter feels contrived. I felt FFXII's script on the other hand, was mostly effortless. In fact, while the plot was quite weak (then again, Shakespeare's plots were weak), the script IMO was genius.






Posted by: Burrgle Jun 5 2008, 01:04 PM

Well...even most theater buffs think that Shakeshere is cheesy and overdone, the fact that FFXII carries this style...makes it.....cheesy and over done!! tongue.gif

And I say Panelo and Vann where the only two cool characters because of the fact that they were both so cheerful, but they did not get enough air time so they couldnt contrast that much with with the other four.

And the fact that you are comparing Frans "exciting" constume with her personality and saying that her costume makes her personality exciting...is just stupid and jeuvenille! Hahhaha.

Posted by: steiner Jun 5 2008, 01:38 PM

QUOTE
Well...even most theater buffs think that Shakeshere is cheesy and overdone, the fact that FFXII carries this style...makes it.....cheesy and over done!! tongue.gif

Shakespeare...cheesy?

Really? Ive never heard anyone say that before. Even though I agree it can be cheesy at times - especially in comedies, in serious fare it isnt usually. Maybe its because the plots he uses are weak. But FFXII was much less cheesy than other FFs like FFX. Come on, you gotta admit that.

QUOTE
And I say Panelo and Vann where the only two cool characters because of the fact that they were both so cheerful, but they did not get enough air time so they couldnt contrast that much with with the other four.

FFXII wasnt really a cheerful game. There were only a few lols along the way. I mean, I didnt really feel cheerfulness was so necessary, although more of a contrast could have been nicer.

QUOTE
And the fact that you are comparing Frans "exciting" constume with her personality and saying that her costume makes her personality exciting...is just stupid and jeuvenille! Hahhaha.

Dont take words outta my mouth. I never said that. I just said her costume was exciting. I didnt mention her personality.

Fran was actually a very wise and old person. So her personality was interesting but not particularly exciting. And lol, that was a funny spelling of the word 'juvenile'. tongue.gif

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 5 2008, 01:44 PM

Yea...it would have been interesting had not all of the guest characters and Basch and Ashe were like that! And FFX! Not a cheery game! FFIX! Not a cheery game! FFVIII! Not a cheery game! FFVII! Not a cheery game! And so on...

But there was always that character that had a postiive view that set them apart from the other characters! Dynamic personality!!!! It is a must!

And yes...cheesy...the parts where they attempt to use Thou's and such......its quite stomach turning and it makes me want to stop playing. Sure it shows class. But they mixed it in with some of the games own vocab that didnt fit well with old english! And old english....if you really read it in its proper...its much harder to understand than how they were speaking...therefore...not Shakespearian!

And dont make fun of my grammertagal insufficiantesy!

Posted by: steiner Jun 5 2008, 02:06 PM

QUOTE
Yea...it would have been interesting had not all of the guest characters and Basch and Ashe were like that! And FFX! Not a cheery game! FFIX! Not a cheery game! FFVIII! Not a cheery game! FFVII! Not a cheery game! And so on...

FFIX was very funny at times though!

QUOTE
And yes...cheesy...the parts where they attempt to use Thou's and such......its quite stomach turning and it makes me want to stop playing. Sure it shows class. But they mixed it in with some of the games own vocab that didnt fit well with old english! And old english....if you really read it in its proper...its much harder to understand than how they were speaking...therefore...not Shakespearian!

The language use was actually extremely good IMO, and not at all cheesy. It was extremely mature and sophisticated and someone had obviously studied the metre very carefully. Ah well, I knew that not everyone would like it.


And old English isnt Shakepearian English by definition. There is lots of old English that is impossible to read and understand and sounds nothing like Shakespeare. Shakespeare on the other hand, isnt really difficult to understand at all, so long as you're paying attention. The same was true for FFXII. I think the tone of FFXII and the metre was very Shakespearian. The use of vocabulary too.

QUOTE
And dont make fun of my grammertagal insufficiantesy!

I will! Teeheheeeeheee! laugh.gif

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 5 2008, 03:56 PM

Ahem! All games had their cheery points! But over all, the subject matter of having to fight to save the world from something that could destroy it is very depressing!

FFXII didnt make it depressing or fun! FFXII just made it boring! The intro with Reks was awesome! But then it just want so stupidly and uninterestingly unfun!

Common...the intro to FFX. I gigantic hellspawn detsroys a metropolis and you start fighting its offspring to some really cool highpaced music!!! Thats fun!

FFIX. You start off by plotting the capture of a highly respected political figure! And you put the plan in motion! That is exciting! (And there is a play! biggrin.gif)

FFVIII, you start out the game by getting hospitalized and then soon go and do a raid from the sea! Thats exciting!

FFVII....you blow shit up! Thats fun

FFVI....you start out by having your first characters torn up by some crystal! And then you team up with moggles! FUN!!!!

Posted by: steiner Jun 5 2008, 06:44 PM

QUOTE
FFXII didnt make it depressing or fun! FFXII just made it boring! The intro with Reks was awesome! But then it just want so stupidly and uninterestingly unfun!

Thats just your onion.

I found it fun.

QUOTE
FFIX. You start off by plotting the capture of a highly respected political figure! And you put the plan in motion! That is exciting! (And there is a play! biggrin.gif)

What I meant is that FFIX is probably the FF with the most comedy. But you're right, it is serious overall, but its also hilarious. More so than any other FF IMO.

And while you're right, for most of the game it has quite a depressing tone, FFIX had lots hilarity along the way and was a happy ending. FFVII, VIII, X and XIII all had sprinklings of it as well.

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 5 2008, 07:59 PM

And FFXII had NOTHING!!! tongue.gif

Posted by: steiner Jun 5 2008, 10:04 PM

^Lol, I meant FFXII, not FFXIII.


The bit where Vaan steals from the Imperials was funny. As was the asking your age thing, and some kiddy stuff with Larsa and Al Cid being a pimp.

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 5 2008, 10:14 PM

QUOTE(steiner @ Jun 5 2008, 10:04 PM) *

^Lol, I meant FFXII, not FFXIII.


The bit where Vaan steals from the Imperials was funny. As was the asking your age thing, and some kiddy stuff with Larsa and Al Cid being a pimp.


Dude...you see AlCid twice...and his clothes were hideous. He looked so stupid! And AlCid..was a stupid name. AND YOU NEVER GET TO GO TO ROZZARIA! WORST THING EVER!!! OGEUHEPOGHPOW!!!

Posted by: steiner Jun 5 2008, 10:16 PM

Stop whining. tongue.gif

I mean, ooooh, you never go to Bevelle properly in FFX. That didnt ruin the game then, and not going to Rozarria wasnt that bad in FFXII. Not to mention that the environments in FFXII were far huger than the ones in FFX.

I didnt really like Al-Cid that much. Dr Cid on the other hand was so awesome. Great acting, and he was entertaining.

Posted by: Grivenger Jun 5 2008, 10:16 PM

QUOTE
And FFX was far too simplistic. I mean common. Wolfs/Lizards (Tidus), Flying (Wakka), Armored (Auron/Kimari), Magic Enemies (Lulu), Machine Enemies (Rikku).

Better than: Anything (Any character that can deal damage), like it is in most of the RPGs, including FFIX. Oh, and FFX makes better use of several RPG characteristics (Status Ailments, Elements), plus, it allows character/ weapon swaping mid-battle, and even different modes to fill the overdrive gauge (in contrast with Trance that is nearly useless). FFIX's gameplay, I fear, just doesn't stands a chance.

QUOTE
Its in the story and character developement parts that FFIX blows FFX away in.

How exactly does FFIX's character development blows away FFX's? In FFIX, the only truly fleshed out characters were the first four: Zidane, Garnet, Vivi & Steiner. Freya was under-developed, and Amarant even more so. Eiko didn't got much neither, and Quina nothing at all. In FFX, the only character will little development is Kimahri, but considering how little screen time the Ronso had, it was still good nonetheless. But then again, Vivi's development was brilliant, so...

It's also a bit hard to compare the stories of both games, though, because they are vastly different, written by authors with completely different styles. Although I give more points to FFX's due to the fact that FFIX's story went downhill for half of the third disk (the whole "let's go after Kuja", which although not bad, not anything godly neither. It picked again once the party reached Terra, just to go downhill again with the random final boss, and finish with a nice (but nothing impressive, IMO), ending). But then again, that's just my opinion.

QUOTE
Hell, I can! FFX was Uematsu's weakest score IMO. It just lacked the depth of the other FFs. Sure, it had killer tunes like To Zanarkand, Otherworld, Blitzball Gambler and Seymour Battle, but Id be hard pressed to find more.

I agree it was Nobuo's weakest score. Despite some of his "killer tracks", it was Hamauzu and Nakano who have saved the OST of the game. But Hamauzu really shined the most of three, no wonder Square decided to put him in charge of the entire FFXIII's OST. =P

QUOTE
Dude...the cutscenes in FFXII sucked....it was just like...look at us..standin and talkin and shit. Oh? Theres a conflict...oh well...we will see no character devlopement...so well just not think about it and go our own ways once we stop doing thing. Uch...we all hate eachother.
...thats what the cut scenes say to me.

The suble facial expressions, brilliant cinematic direction, very well-written script, and the pure majesty and elegance of the way some plot points were handled (like Gabranth's/ Drace's second scene) make FFXII's cutscenes worth watching more than one time. If all you interpret from them is "lolol not enough action, standin and talkin and shit is boring. i want action lololol", then no wonder you don't like them, I guess?

And there's character development, maybe not enough for you, but it is there. Give me several examples of scenes with no character development, and I'll prove you wrong.

QUOTE
FFXII was a little too StarWars esque! I agree with Chrono....its almost like....a copy! SE is a copy cat!

Because SW was a story about saving empires, freeing the world from gods, etc, right? And FFXII was a story about an evil empire ruled by a Dark Lord, right?

Most of the similarities are superficial. Sure, Gabranth looks like Darth Vader slightly. And probably you can draw other similarities from several plot points, but overall, FFXII goes in a completely different direction.

Saying that it copies SW is childish, and shows a total lack of capacity at analyzing any narrative behind its superficial aspects.

QUOTE
I think you guys were just too blind to see it.

Trying too hard to hate a game tends to blind a person.


Haven't posted in awhile. =P But last time I did so, I believe I was in the same argument with the same people. xD

Posted by: Chrono Jun 5 2008, 10:25 PM

It's still similar stories to many people, Griv'. That's why people say that. Everything is cliché. Everything looks similar; though designed differently.

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 5 2008, 10:26 PM

Hahahaa...I am just throwing childish arguements at this point without thinking. I have said my opinions logically before. Now I am just ef-in around tongue.gif

But still....I dont see that much about where SE went different from Starwars. Evil Emporer=Vayne. They just go into more depth about where the dark evilness comes from. but they didnt go enough tongue.gif

And I did appricaite some of the scenes..I loved it when Drace and Gabranth had there moments. But there was not enough! Some of the interactions that they had were quality. But its not like the interactions were outstanding...if it was outstanding..we would only need one scene to the game. You cant deny that the game did not cover enough ground with the story!

(I would give a more indepth response to your post...but.....ehhhhhh.....im sweaty and Im feeling nasty....)

Hahahaa...I am just throwing childish arguements at this point without thinking. I have said my opinions logically before. Now I am just ef-in around tongue.gif

But still....I dont see that much about where SE went different from Starwars. Evil Emporer=Vayne. They just go into more depth about where the dark evilness comes from. but they didnt go enough tongue.gif

And I did appricaite some of the scenes..I loved it when Drace and Gabranth had there moments. But there was not enough! Some of the interactions that they had were quality. But its not like the interactions were outstanding...if it was outstanding..we would only need one scene to the game. You cant deny that the game did not cover enough ground with the story!

(I would give a more indepth response to your post...but.....ehhhhhh.....im sweaty and Im feeling nasty....)

Posted by: Grivenger Jun 5 2008, 10:33 PM

EDIT:

QUOTE
It's still similar stories to many people, Griv'. That's why people say that. Everything is cliché. Everything looks similar; though designed differently.

There's no truly original story nowadays, all of them feature the same plot points over and over. It's the presentation and execution that makes them unique.

FFXII's story presentation WAS similar to SW's in some ways, though. It was clear that the developers had done it on purpose. But still, it was only in the most superficial aspects. Other than that, it was by far a more grey-ish story, with completely different themes.

QUOTE(Burrgle @ Jun 5 2008, 11:26 PM) *
But still....I dont see that much about where SE went different from Starwars. Evil Emporer=Vayne. They just go into more depth about where the dark evilness comes from. but they didnt go enough tongue.gif

Vayne resembles a lot more your average Tragic Hero than your average Dark Lord.

QUOTE
But there was not enough!

That I agree. Quality was there, quantity was not.

Posted by: steiner Jun 5 2008, 10:36 PM

QUOTE
Better than: Anything (Any character that can deal damage), like it is in most of the RPGs, including FFIX. Oh, and FFX makes better use of several RPG characteristics (Status Ailments, Elements), plus, it allows character/ weapon swaping mid-battle, and even different modes to fill the overdrive gauge (in contrast with Trance that is nearly useless). FFIX's gameplay, I fear, just doesn't stands a chance.

...that's not a very coherent point tbh.

And I mean, most of thats just your opinion. Trance certainly wasnt useless. It was just less overpowered. The system wasnt ideal, but it wasnt useless. FFIX had more unique characters that remained unique througout the game. And while I wouldnt say its battle system was necessarily better than FFX's, I do think it is a very close comparison.

QUOTE
How exactly does FFIX's character development blows away FFX's? In FFIX, the only truly fleshed out characters were the first four: Zidane, Garnet, Vivi & Steiner. Freya was under-developed, and Amarant even more so. Eiko didn't got much neither, and Quina nothing at all. In FFX, the only character will little development is Kimahri, but considering how little screen time the Ronso had, it was still good nonetheless. But then again, Vivi's development was brilliant, so...

I actually thought Amarant was very strongly, but subtly developed. I mean, he's a man of few words, but that doesnt mean he doesnt develop much throughout. I thought quite a few of his statements revealed his changing perspectives throughout. Look at his self referential comment in my sig for example.

Freya did have some developement. Probably as much as Lulu did. Eiko had a fair bit, but got outshone by the other characters. Quina had...none...pretty much tongue.gif. Quina was more of a bonus.

Zidane had excellent developement. So too did Vivi. Kuja as well was a much more successful villain than Seymour. Steiner had loads of developement too, and Garnet had decent developement.

For FFX, Tidus had average developement, but I never thought he was a great character. Yuna had decent developement, Kimahri had none, Auron was awesome as a character, Rikku didnt really have much - probably equal to Eiko. Wakka had a fair bit, Lulu had less.

You can see why I think FFIX had far more developement...

QUOTE
It's also a bit hard to compare the stories of both games, though, because they are vastly different, written by authors with completely different styles. Although I give more points to FFX's due to the fact that FFIX's story went downhill for half of the third disk (the whole "let's go after Kuja", which although not bad, not anything godly neither. It picked again once the party reached Terra, just to go downhill again with the random final boss, and finish with a nice (but nothing impressive, IMO), ending). But then again, that's just my opinion.

In a way, and this is a bit strange, I'm more interested in the themes FFIX explores rather than the plot itself. I thought the plot was very good, but not Godly. What I did think was Godly was the symbology, the examination of life and death, the characterisation of Vivi, the black mages, Kuja etc. Even Necron had philosophical significance.

QUOTE
agree it was Nobuo's weakest score. Despite some of his "killer tracks", it was Hamauzu and Nakano who have saved the OST of the game. But Hamauzu really shined the most of three, no wonder Square decided to put him in charge of the entire FFXIII's OST. =P

Yeah, Hamauzu was highly praised for his work. Unfortunately his tracks in FFX didnt connect with me as well as Uematsu does usually.


QUOTE
Trying too hard to hate a game tends to blind a person.

The same is true for anything.

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 5 2008, 10:38 PM

EDIT Damn...Stiener butted infront of me! But I agree alot with what you say Stiener. Well said.

Geek Tragic Hero eh? tongue.gif

No Greek Tragic Hero I met had a God by his side...not that I remember. I feel like it should have been a trusted advisor or maybe a mother. I feel like it would have been more compelling. And I kind of agreed with Vayne and Venats philosophy at the end! WTF!?! It was a good philospy they may have pursued it wrong though.

Im sorry for being such a baby about FFXII. I was just extremely underwealmed.

Posted by: Grivenger Jun 5 2008, 11:03 PM

QUOTE
Trance certainly wasnt useless. It was just less overpowered. The system wasnt ideal, but it wasnt useless.

Trance was poorly implemented. The bar filled very slowly, and because you couldn't save it, more times than not you would waste your trance. They could at least make it so if a character went into trance, but if the player didn't get the opportunity to use it until the end of the battle, then in the next battle the respective character would start with the bar +/- 90% full, isntead of totally empty. It would be much more fair.

QUOTE
I actually thought Amarant was very strongly, but subtly developed. I mean, he's a man of few words, but that doesnt mean he doesnt develop much throughout. I thought quite a few of his statements revealed his changing perspectives throughout. Look at his self referential comment in my sig for example.

The development is subtle, but still not much.

QUOTE
Freya did have some developement. Probably as much as Lulu did.

The problem with Freya is that her development ended abruptly. She was a very interesting character for the first two disks, then she was completely ignored until the end. I kept hoping the third disk would dedicate an entire subplot to her (her relationship with the person she loved, for example, had potential for that), isntead of just that tiny (but good nonetheless) moment at the ending.

QUOTE
Zidane had excellent developement. So too did Vivi. Kuja as well was a much more successful villain than Seymour. Steiner had loads of developement too, and Garnet had decent developement.

All of them were well-developed. Garnet's was more than decent, for sure. I mean, look at everything that happens to her, and how she changes so much!

It's kinda unfair to compare Kuja to Seymour, though, as one is a main villain, the other is not.

QUOTE
For FFX, Tidus had average developement

You see him subtly growing up and becoming a leader.

To make a contrast: At the beginning of the game, Auron's revelation about Tidus' father makes him whine a lot. Near the end, the Fayth's revealed something much worse regarding the boy's destiny, should he acchieve his objectives. And Tidus? He accepted it, like the grown man he had become!

Through the entire game, you see Tidus adapting to a new world, including Yuna's "job" and the depression caused by Sin. You see him learn about more stuff from Lulu or Auron, you see how he starts to accept some things about his father, etc. A lot of things that happen in the story provoke a reaction to Tidus, and make him ultimately (but also slightly subtly) change as a person, and in top of all, you see his thoughts of everything.

You call all that "average development"?

QUOTE
Kimahri had none

The entire Ronso subplot was character development for him, so was Yuna's sphere about her past.

QUOTE
Rikku didnt really have much - probably equal to Eiko.

Rikku had more, but then again, she had "bigger" problems to deal with than Eiko.

EDIT:
QUOTE
Geek Tragic Hero eh?

Greek tragic heroes tend to be:
- People with high political power (which Vayne has);
- Strong ideals for the greater good (like Vayne, too);
- Flaws that, ironically, end up making them the enemies of their own ideals (Vayne's flaw was his lack of innocence. if Vayne had that, AKA, if Vayne had not ignored Larsa's more innocent plans, he would have survived by the end and be a great hero);
- Stories with those kind of Tragic Heroes tend to be told not through their point of views, but through the point of view of one of the many people affected by their actions (AKA, Ashe, Vaan, etc);
- Those kind of Tragic Heroes tend to share similarities with the personality of the many protagonists of the story (Vayne is seeking freedom like Vaan, warrior like Basch, arrogant like Balthier, noble like Ashe, wise like Fran, NOT innocent like Penelo, AKA, "his flaw". Larsa is the one that is innocent like Penelo, and that's when Vayne loses Larsa that he fails).

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 5 2008, 11:47 PM

Trance was a great system...but Grivenger is correct, it is not as well as it could have been. If they made the system a little bit more...hands on and able to control a bit more too. In addition to the fact that you do waste it most of the time. But if you were able to save the Trance..it could take away from a lot of the challenge. Unless of course they made the games enemies harder.

I guess Ill review each of the characters from FFIX and FFX tongue.gif

Zidane: His developement is evident but it doesnt seem like he changes overall that much. Which is good. But at the same time. I did not really connect well with Zidanes story as well as some of the others. G is right...it did go downhill a bit after the first two disks. I thought it was interesting that he had the whole creation on Terra thing going for him. But there was nothing really happening to unlay that. Except for the monkey tail. But Kuja didnt reveal his until later...so there was no suspision. It could have been approached better.

Garnet: Great character, I do get a bit emotional when I see the moment between her and her mom, Brahne. You are able to see the backround that brahne was defenatly a wonderful woman before she came into contact with Kuja. I wish Brahnes character was a little bit more carried on through the story for Garnet...I feel like it would have been more dramatic then. I love the scene were she chops of her hair...as if chopping off a huge burden. So significant. But after that...she seems to stop developing....

Stiener: Another good one, he moves past looking at Zidane as a "street rat" figure. And he shows his nobility when he fights off the Bandersnitches with Fraya and Beatrix. I thought that was a beautiful scene. I wish he had abit more though. I dont remember much else out of him. But he does show his constant respect toward Garnet even if it defys her wishes. Eventually he does tone that down though. I think...

Vivi: Best character development in FFIX. Identity. Posed with not knowing when his own death with be. A beautiful idea from SE and so traditionally portrayed. (Traditional Black Mage look)...I dont think I need to go into how awesome Vivi is.

Fraya: Great character, it would have been nice, like G said to have a bit more backround with her in the other disks..but great until that point.

Quina: She does get a backstory. It is just small, and she barely needs one....she is so distinct and akward...she is more of a bonus character anyway...you dont need her to complete the game.

Eiko: I feel like she has her small bit of character development here and there...but she almsot didnt feel complete. Maybe I just dont remember the second half....but I remember that she had a big deal of development (or so it seemed) at the bahamut attack on alexandria

Amerant: Worst character in my opinion. I didnt hear much from him out of the story...he was silent. Which can be a character in itself, but he barely took no action. And I thought the whole you defeated me, I accept you as my masterish kinda thing...was rather cheesy.

Now FFX

Tidus....defnatly more than an average character. He moves from being a whiney bitch to becoming a lot more of a man. And hes always finding out new things...so hes constantlydeveloping

Yuna. Reserved...but its a great character. She conveys so much through her wanting to have privacy and her talking about her thoughts and making non rash decisions. And it really reflects the fact that....I am going to die soon, I better not doing anything stupid before hand so people dont think I am an idiot. It gives her that kind of mindframe. And the moment in the spring was beautiful to me! She opened up in way she never had before...with so much at stake.

Auron: Great character. He does develop a lot at the end...when he gets to facing his own past. And he reveals the fact that he is dead. But when you have a mentor you do not expect them to develop a lot...you expect them to remain constant and rocksteady.

Rikku: I dont think that they protrayed her well enough. I feel like they should have made the racism agaisnt her more shown. But I loved the symbolism of Home. I just wish that you were able to explore it a little before it was destroyed. Its destruction had a purpose...but I think they did it a little too early. I think Wakka should have been able to wallow in his anti Albehdness for a bit longer

Wakka: Awesome character. So real...a great buddy to people who he likes. But firm to his religous affiliations...I know so many people like this. And it really pisses me off when people aknowledge others as lower than them when they have done nothing. Wakka did this and really raised the racism issue a lot.

Lulu: A good mentor in place of Auron for while Auron was away. But she had her own flair and mentality about her that made her so interesting. Kinda like a mother to Yuna too. Or an older sister. She develops a bit everytime she talks about the areas you are at because of her previous pilgramages. Which I thought was a great backstory...but she had three previous didnt she? I only remember hearing of one explained in the story

Kimari: I think if he had his own battle flair it would have done him some justice. But you do see how he developes through the Ronso encounters. But it doenst really carry. Its just kinda like...oh...Ronso...oh...Kimari....great. Thats probelby understateing it a bit. That is what it seemed like to me though....

And you are still spelling "GREEK" wrong. tongue.gif

Posted by: Grivenger Jun 6 2008, 12:55 PM

QUOTE
Zidane: His developement is evident but it doesnt seem like he changes overall that much.

Zidane's development was more static than dinamic, with the exception of the Terra's part. You don't see him change much, but you get to know a lot about him as he tries to help his party members: his philosophies and style of life, his ways to deal with problems, etc.

Keep in mind that character development does not equals to how much the characters change through the story. Character development means how much you get to know of a character.

QUOTE
I love the scene were she chops of her hair...as if chopping off a huge burden. So significant. But after that...she seems to stop developing....

The Terra part and the Zidane's disappearance(sp?) at the end all affect her somehow, so she doesn't just stops developing after the hair cut as you say.

QUOTE
Quina: She does get a backstory. It is just small, and she barely needs one....she is so distinct and akward...she is more of a bonus character anyway...you dont need her to complete the game.

Actually, he/she is only a bonus at the first disk. You need him/her to advance through the story ar disk 2.

Quina's only development dealt with food questions. If the character had more development, maybe with other equally distinct and akward stuff, and if done right, it would only make Quina more memorable and rich as a character.

QUOTE
Tidus....defnatly more than an average character. He moves from being a whiney bitch to becoming a lot more of a man. And hes always finding out new things...so hes constantlydeveloping

Exactly. The fact that you enter constantly in Tidus' mind, see his thoughts and how he is affected by every single thing, is more than enough to make you know him well.

QUOTE
And you are still spelling "GREEK" wrong. tongue.gif

I knew there was something wrong with the spelling, but I couldn't figure out what exactly. xD And then you typed out exactly like I did, which did not help....

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 6 2008, 02:15 PM

QUOTE
Keep in mind that character development does not equals to how much the characters change through the story. Character development means how much you get to know of a character.


You know....I never thought about character development that way. Something to defenatly keep in mind. Thank you smile.gif

And what is the differece between Static and Dynamic. I have heard the two used in this kind of context...but i do not remember what it means.

And I am probebly wrong about a lot of things after Disk 3 starts. That is where I am right now and I forgot where I need to be going. I think I am supposed to be looking for the shrines. But I must be 1 part before that, because I see the shrines...I just do not get the intro scene before each two characters go to one. >.< (I love how Zidane has to go with Quina, BURN!). But anyway...my knowledge of everything after the Gurugu Volcano is very very hazy...so I will have to get home and replay it. Unfortunatly, I am not getting home until mid AUGUST! -falllls into nothingness!-

Posted by: Grivenger Jun 6 2008, 03:39 PM

QUOTE
And what is the differece between Static and Dynamic. I have heard the two used in this kind of context...but i do not remember what it means.

It's dynamic when the characters change through the story. It's static when the characters remain the same way through the story. People tend to think that static is bad, but it really depends on the kind of character, and how they have developed before the story took place.

For example, Auron's is for most of the game static, because he hardly changes, but we get to know how he changed in the past through spheres and memories, which in turn explains why he is the kind of person he is during the story. So, the development is there, but in a different way. (Auron does learn some new things through the story, so he is also a bit dynamic.)

Usually, young characters tend to be the most dynamic, and older characters more static, but that's just a generalization, there are countless exceptions to that.

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 6 2008, 03:41 PM

Thank you for the info! I guessed thats what it was, but I wasnt sure. biggrin.gif

So what do we talk about now....FFXII spinoffs?!

Posted by: steiner Jun 6 2008, 06:29 PM

QUOTE
Trance was poorly implemented. The bar filled very slowly, and because you couldn't save it, more times than not you would waste your trance. They could at least make it so if a character went into trance, but if the player didn't get the opportunity to use it until the end of the battle, then in the next battle the respective character would start with the bar +/- 90% full, isntead of totally empty. It would be much more fair.

If you were tactical, but stuck on a boss, you could enter random battles until your trance level was relatively close to being full. And then you could enter the battle. I remember getting every one of my character's bar up to trance on my first playthrough before the final battle, just to give me that extra edge.

QUOTE
The development is subtle, but still not much.

I disagree. I thought there was a considerable amount of developement.

Although now that I think about it, we shouldnt really be focussing on developement alone. After all, some of the most interesting characters dont have that much developement. I though Amarant was very interesting, and the developement he did have was left mysteriously hanging, right up to the end.


QUOTE
The problem with Freya is that her development ended abruptly. She was a very interesting character for the first two disks, then she was completely ignored until the end. I kept hoping the third disk would dedicate an entire subplot to her (her relationship with the person she loved, for example, had potential for that), isntead of just that tiny (but good nonetheless) moment at the ending.

Yeah, I agree with you. Then again, that has happened to a lot of characters throughout Final Fantasy. Thats why I thought my comparison with Lulu was pretty good.
QUOTE

You see him subtly growing up and becoming a leader.

To make a contrast: At the beginning of the game, Auron's revelation about Tidus' father makes him whine a lot. Near the end, the Fayth's revealed something much worse regarding the boy's destiny, should he acchieve his objectives. And Tidus? He accepted it, like the grown man he had become!

Through the entire game, you see Tidus adapting to a new world, including Yuna's "job" and the depression caused by Sin. You see him learn about more stuff from Lulu or Auron, you see how he starts to accept some things about his father, etc. A lot of things that happen in the story provoke a reaction to Tidus, and make him ultimately (but also slightly subtly) change as a person, and in top of all, you see his thoughts of everything.

You call all that "average development"?

Hehe, I concede. I didnt really think Tidus had average developement. I just didnt like his character that much. I thought he was an average charater with good developement. His voice acting didnt help. tongue.gif

QUOTE
The entire Ronso subplot was character development for him, so was Yuna's sphere about her past.

Ooooh yeah. Forgot about that. Yeah, he did have a bit. I liked the Ronso stuff.


Anyway, I thought FFX and FFIX both had some great character developement. I still think that in terms of character developement, FFIX clearly wins. Mainly because Steiner is without a shadow of a doubt the best character in the history of the Universe. I dont think I have impressed upon you what a great character he is. He starts off in a very rigid way. He has a firm set of beliefs and principles and he is comfortable with them. He is also very entertaining.

However, then he meets Zidane and his view of the world begins to change. Everything he ever held as certain is now questioned...'Having sworn fealty must I spend my life in servitude?' He begins to realise that he has been trapped in a bubble, without a true perspective of what's happenening in the world around him. He begins to realise that things are not black and white and that he can decide morality and immorality by himself. And so he takes that journey to change himself. He learns more and more throughout the time, he even falls in love with his biggest rival and he starts to become almost shrewd. By the end of the game, he has discovered a new life without abandonning his original set of priniciples. He finds his own comfort zone and reaches a level of maturity and happiness that anyone would envy. He took a great journey and he came out in glory.


Then there's Vivi. Dont get me started on him. The philosophical ramifications of what he, Kuja and the black mages go through is very deep. His voyage is also unbelievable. He goes through confusion, sadness, loneliness, anger and finally, death. And in his death there is a powerful message. Even in death he is triumphant.



Posted by: Burrgle Jun 6 2008, 06:32 PM

VIVI DIED?!

...I completely missed that. Maybe I forgot about it....but that is unlikely.

And um....what is a ramification? biggrin.gif

Posted by: steiner Jun 6 2008, 06:39 PM

^Its a long word that you use to try and make yourself sound clever.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ramification

Im not sure If I used it properly or not. laugh.gif


EDIT: and yeah, Vivi died - by strong implication. That was sort of the point of his story. What his death represented...well I'll let you work that out.

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 6 2008, 06:42 PM

No no! Please tell me! I am not going to be able to play FFIX again until August!!!! >.> And even then, Ill have to work for it because I am just starting Disk3!!! And I have beaten the game...so its not really a spoiler! So tthere!!!

Posted by: steiner Jun 6 2008, 06:54 PM

^No, that ruins everything. Play the game, and study Vivi (and everyone elses) character. Analyse what is going through their mind, but do it in a relaxing way of course (Im not asking for an essay!).

Its just that sometimes you can gloss over a sentence without truly understanding its meaning. Thats why I find something new, every time I play FFIX.

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 6 2008, 06:55 PM

Buuut....this wont happen until August....you could just give me the answer....it would be so easy biggrin.gif

Posted by: CREA Jun 8 2008, 10:08 PM

I don´t really mind if there is no FFXII sequel.
It seems like SE is just churning out sequels and not the installments we all want to play.


I mean, if FFXIII takes 5 years to be released I´ll kill myself.

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 9 2008, 06:27 PM

Or.....you could get a life and not play video games. Hahahahaha...get another hobby CREA.

I am kind of anxious for FFXIII to come out and I am angry that it isnt becaues I am used to being able to have an FF every now and then that is mainstream. Uch...it makes me angry. but when these things make you angry....you need to look at you own life and figure out something productive. I took up songwriting a few days ago! biggrin.gif

Posted by: CREA Jun 12 2008, 09:27 PM

QUOTE
Or.....you could get a life and not play video games. Hahahahaha...get another hobby CREA.


Go fuck yourself.


Anyway, I am sick of sequels. They should focus more on the games people actually want to have not on like Chocobos mystery dungeon XIV

Posted by: Burrgle Jun 13 2008, 04:25 AM

QUOTE(CREA @ Jun 12 2008, 09:27 PM) *

Go fuck yourself.

I have totally thought about doing that....I am just tooo fiiine biggrin.gif

I dont mind the sequels. In fact, I actually like them if they are well produced. But I think they are forgetting about a lot of the main series....

Posted by: silentaura Jun 16 2008, 05:01 PM

Keep down the profanity and stay on topic you two. Or this topic will be closed.

Posted by: Snake Jun 21 2008, 08:51 PM

Hmm... I don't really know if SE would ever want to create another FFXII. It's pretty late to do something like that. Hmm... stranger things have happened, so I don't know. I wouldn't mind a Balthier as the main character FFXII spin off on the PS3, though.

Posted by: Chrono Jun 22 2008, 06:32 PM

On PS3... -__-;;
Oh please! They already have a so-called sequal on the DS.
And they're not working on project Ivalice anymore.
All SquareEnix said they will focus on the FNC (FF13s) for the next 10 years.
I don't think they will have time for another spin-off.
Also, they're supposed to be working on a PS3 remake of FF7 and KH3.
They won't have the time for that.

*mumbles something*

Posted by: Cless Jul 9 2013, 01:23 AM

I would welcome it much more than Lightning Returns.

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