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> Just got the game...., Impression so far
Diorelli
post May 4 2007, 01:08 PM
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@Ringo

OH NO. Definitely NOT. I replayed the last 2 chapters again, and come to the conclusion that aside from one conversation they had, Ashe and Balthier hardly had any interaction at all. And on that one conversation, Ashe walked away from him in her queenly obnoxious way that it answered the question I had whether she liked him or not. tongue.gif

Al-Cid - I don't know if he was mentioned or if it was Ambervale, I'm not sure, I have to check with aorin on that.
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Refia
post May 4 2007, 09:01 PM
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How is the Final Boss? Don't spoil his identity/looks/story, just tell me what you thought of him/her (impressive, not bad, awesome, that sort of stuff). Is this Final Boss more or less impressive than FF XII's Final Boss? Also, how's the music during the battle? Is it 'Battle for Freedom' again?

Yeah, lotsa Final Boss questions. But Final Bosses are extremely important to me. They need to impress, at least in some aspect (looks, music, attacks, difficulty, that stuff).


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Ringo
post May 5 2007, 12:26 AM
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@Diorelli
well I guess that is good news ^^ So RW actually have different endings? hmm.....hopefully there's one where Basch and Ashe get together biggrin.gif
So I guess RW didn't show if Balthier and Fran are lovers or not then?


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aorin
post May 5 2007, 07:50 AM
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@ Ringo
^ Nope they only have one ending. Which is a tad little disappointment to Basch/Ashe fans. As mentioned, I truly see little hints of their growth in relationship throughout the game but the ending and credits throw me back to square one again and I'm back to guessing Ashe feelings for the guys. Vaan is taken, that's for certain; Basch still remains a judge though I think he now hangs out more in Dalmasca; Balthier/Fran seem to have gotten together and there were some dialogues that show the closeness of their relationship. Ashe... still looks lonely despite everthing, and that peeved me bad. I mean, throughout the game, she was so determine to help her country and she would do anything to protect it. So why does she still show signs of loneliness in the god-forsaken credits where everyone... and I mean, everyone is smiling.

Which is the reason, I'm rather upset over. Most of the things feel resolve and everyone is happy but Ashe... why does she look forlourn? And worse, Basch was standing behind her though he was smiling at Larsa rather than looking at Ashe. Hmm... maybe that's why she's upset? I felt that SE was tryng to hint Basch/Ashe but the credits and some parts of the ending felt like slap to the face for me.

And I stick to my view, I'd say Balthier/Fran got together. Do you want me to explain the pictures in the credits? As it does say a quite a lot.


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Diorelli
post May 5 2007, 08:46 AM
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@Refia

Hmm, the end boss, I don't think I can compare it with the XII boss.. Ok, let me explain, in XII, I was horribly overlevelled, all my party was 99 with the shiny ultimate weapons and the best armour, so the end boss in XII only lasted for a few minutes for me. In RW, I was about the same level as the boss, at around 50ish, I didn't have the best weapons either. I died at the first encounter since I didn't know what to expect and my party line-up wasn't very good. Second attempt, I adjusted my party, and it was easy after that. So, I guess, the end boss in RW can be more challenging although I don't know if my levels are something to do with it. I hope I'm not confusing you.

@aorin
Funny how a second play-through could change my mind lol. Last time we talked, I was a bit upset by it all, maybe it's because rushing through a game you barely understand can really mess up your head. laugh.gif I played the last 2 chapters again, well that was how far back my last save was, and my conclusion is still that the game hints at Ashe/Basch but stops short of calling it a hook-up. Maybe because they wanted more room for development? I heard there might be a new sequel.

I agree with you on the unresolved bits, I don't like open-ended stories however I also don't want to be hit with the love hammer like the ones in X or in VIII and to some extent RW. If they don't want a love story, then don't put hints on them. Or put Ashe/Basch hints and then take it away in the end. WTF SE??!! Chickened out? tongue.gif
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Ringo
post May 5 2007, 12:59 PM
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@ aorin

QUOTE
^ Nope they only have one ending. Which is a tad little disappointment to Basch/Ashe fans. As mentioned, I truly see little hints of their growth in relationship throughout the game but the ending and credits throw me back to square one again and I'm back to guessing Ashe feelings for the guys.

O man that is a big disappointment to Basch/Ashe fans......but at least we got a Basch catching fainting Ashe scene right? ^^ btw was it a FMV scene or just in sprite form? I guess sprite form is better than nothing tongue.gif
What do you mean by Ashe's feelingf for the guys? I thought her feelings towards Vaan's always been pretty neutral, and as Diorelli said, Ashe didn't have much interaction with Balthier in RW. So doesn't that leave only Basch? Don't tell me SE introduced more guys for Ashe...... aggressive.gif

QUOTE
Basch still remains a judge though I think he now hangs out more in Dalmasca; Ashe... still looks lonely despite everthing, and that peeved me bad.

Good thing Basch's visiting Dalmasca more......so why is Ashe lonely still? I thought she misses him. So in the ending it actually says/shows that Ashe's lonely??? blink.gif

QUOTE
And worse, Basch was standing behind her though he was smiling at Larsa rather than looking at Ashe. Hmm... maybe that's why she's upset? I felt that SE was tryng to hint Basch/Ashe but the credits and some parts of the ending felt like slap to the face for me.

hmmm.....so my guess is you threw your DS out the window.
So there are character drawings shown during credits? Like in FFXII?
Well maybe Basch was smiling at Larsa cuz he's silently thanking Larsa for letting him visit Ashe? And Ashe's upset cuz Basch still couldn't come back to Dalmasca....?

btw what was Basch and Ashe's first meeting like in RW??? Was it romantic ?

QUOTE
And I stick to my view, I'd say Balthier/Fran got together. Do you want me to explain the pictures in the credits? As it does say a quite a lot.

Yes, please! I'm glad Balthier's not after Ashe^^


@Diorelli
QUOTE
Or put Ashe/Basch hints and then take it away in the end. WTF SE??!! Chickened out?

Yeah SE probably chickened out..........unless like you said, they're going to introduce another sequel. Please, SE let it be focused on Basch and Ashe this time! Come one, Ashe can't be sad/lonely for the rest of her life! And we all know that she has feeling for Basch biggrin.gif (well, I hope anyway since I haven't and will not be playing RW tongue.gif)


This post has been edited by Ringo: May 5 2007, 12:59 PM
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jenny
post May 5 2007, 01:05 PM
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What about the scene where it appears Vaan is about to attack Balthier?
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Sills
post May 5 2007, 08:38 PM
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About Ashe SPOILERS AHEAD
She does look so forlorn during the ending credits. Ashe is a young woman who at a very young age and within a short period of time lost her husband, her father, and her brothers. She has her kingom and has saved it with the aid of her friends more than once. But this does not make her immune to loneliness. She is queen but she is also just a mortal woman.
During the ending credits she happens to by "spying" on Basch and Larsa. They don't realize that she is eavesdropping on them so therefore don't acknowledge her presence (they are standng within the room and she is hiding next to the entrance) In a way, Basch is all she has left of her former life and probably her closest friend. I think the term "friend" does little justice to what is between them; he has likely been in her life since she was a child. And from FFXII we saw what they had to overcome in order for her to trust him again after his brother framed him.
To witness "her Basch" and Larsa being so jovial and free together must be akin to a knife in the heart of sorts. Although Basch probably spends a good deal of time in Dalmasca, it is no longer his home.
He doesn't "belong" to her anymore and worse he seems comfortable in his new niche. And though it is for the good of all that he doesn't abandon his new post, I think Ashe is suffering from these conflicting feelings. Caught between her personal desire and loneliness and her obligations to her country. It could be that she is also responding to the content of the their conversation so perhaps that is why she looks so serious and glum. But based on Basch and Larsa's facial expressions I don't think they are discussing grave matters at all.

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aorin
post May 6 2007, 03:11 PM
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HEAVY SPOILER ALERT:

@ Diorelli
QUOTE
I played the last 2 chapters again, well that was how far back my last save was, and my conclusion is still that the game hints at Ashe/Basch but stops short of calling it a hook-up. Maybe because they wanted more room for development? I heard there might be a new sequel.

I do hope so smile.gif I'll take anything that FFXII has to give. I mean, I not that picky on sequels and I did enjoy FFX-2 and FFVII: DOC laugh.gif But please... I'm begging here, if they want a sequel; please do focus on the politics of the story instead of adventure. For me, the political conflicts were what draw me to the game, instead of the sky-pirating adventures. Anyhow, they've already focus enough on sky-pirates in RW, and it's time to change the direction, I have yet to see Rozarria. It seems that Rozarria is a far off legend in FFXII, we only hear about it but we'll never see it.

But of course, I'll be beaming like the sun if their sequel is Basch-related whether it is in the past or present. Though, I doubt SE is that kind-hearted to fulfill my wish. dry.gif ... Now this is strange, till now, no one has ask me anything regarding the Judge of Wings, nor Vaan/Penelo or even about Velis. I've been only covering on Ashe/Basch, Balthier/Fran and Larsa. And SE still hasn’t gotten the hint that these characters are much more favoured by fans and that if there is a sequel it should be focuses on them instead.

Hehe... my last save point is the End of Chapter 7, and it was on purpose. So I can rewatch the all the scenes of Basch and Ashe as I please. I have another save point which stops in end of Chapter 8 which I'm trying (if possible) to get 100% for the game. And yes, I was happy with Basch/Ashe interaction in RW but the ending... bah... left me clueless and scrapping for more. But I'm glad the game works for you.

QUOTE(Ringo @ May 5 2007, 12:59 PM) *

@ aorin
O man that is a big disappointment to Basch/Ashe fans......but at least we got a Basch catching fainting Ashe scene right? ^^ btw was it a FMV scene or just in sprite form? I guess sprite form is better than nothing tongue.gif
What do you mean by Ashe's feelingf for the guys? I thought her feelings towards Vaan's always been pretty neutral, and as Diorelli said, Ashe didn't have much interaction with Balthier in RW. So doesn't that leave only Basch? Don't tell me SE introduced more guys for Ashe...... aggressive.gif

Heh! Worry not. SE didn't introduce more guys to Ashe, she have enough suitors from her past to deal with new ones. Though, Penelo did get to meet new boys besides Vaan. When I say other men, it pretty much zone down to Basch and Balthier. From the ending and credits, it feels as though it was free interpretation again, just the same as the Ending FMV of FFXII. There were so much debate on whether who she was thinking about (maybe she's missing either one of the guys, or she still reminiscing her past and all that is lost, also due to loneliness). RW's ending and credits are no different, and I'm not happy with it.

Yes, as Diorelli said, she has more interaction with Basch than Balthier, or at least that's how we both see it. But why do this? Why even put Balthier in the picture when I can assure you that there were more dialogues hinting towards Fran/Balthier, why SE has to even conceive the possibility that she might be pining for a guy who's already taken instead of appreciating Basch who actually decides that returning to Dalmasca on occasion is not a sin.

And Basch catching Ashe (in sprite form), that was the best moment for me biggrin.gif I was awwwing and ooohing and giggling when that scene appears. Well, at least Basch decides to be more 'coughs physical coughs* in RW, so that's a good sign smile.gif Actually, it’s a double edge sword, as mentioned, they hinted on Basch/Ashe more heavily than Balthier/Ashe but in the end, they decided to destroy my wonderful cocoon of fantasy by hinting that there might be other possibility.

I mentioned in my review that RW feels resolve, they gave hints of what happen to the characters after the ending of FFXII. Everyone (the main cast) moved on, and everyone was smiling in the credits... but Ashe... why is that she always the one with a problem? Anyhow, I'll give an in-depth explanation for the credits later.

QUOTE(Ringo @ May 5 2007, 12:59 PM) *

Good thing Basch's visiting Dalmasca more......so why is Ashe lonely still? I thought she misses him. So in the ending it actually says/shows that Ashe's lonely??? blink.gif

In relation to FFXII, they said she misses him, he's back, so can't she at least be happy about it blink.gif For one thing, I have no complains about any interaction between them until the ending and credits. The ending actually shows Ashe turning around to look at Basch, in which he gave her a nod, then she turn and look at Balthier and Fran's direction, both acknowledge her and together with Nono they head down back to the cockpit. Ashe followed and I presume Basch as well as they weren't on the deck in the next shot. Finally, it shows Strahl flying towards the horizon with Vaan, Penelo, Kytes, Filo, Tomaj on the deck. This ending is quite ambiguous but IMO, it explains a scene between Balthier and Ashe earlier where Balthier said that Ashe should try viewing the sunset from the Strahl, to which Ashe answers, if that's what he thinks and then walks away. That scene can be interpreted in many ways - either she was trying to make him jealous by mentioning that the sunset in Ambervale is beautiful or either she just absently remarking on something. Anyhow, the conversation goes like this:

“Balthier walk up and stands behind Ashe (which was different from the pic shown earlier in the magazines as that one shows them standing next to each other)
Balthier: Is it fine for the queen to be at such a place?
Ashe: I just came to feel the outside wind. I’ll return in a while. Some time ago…
Balthier: Hmm?
Ashe: Some time ago, I visited Rozarria’s Al-Cid.
Balthier: A friendly visit between the countries. The queen is has been really busy.
Ashe: The capital, Ambervale’s sunset is beautiful
Balthier: Even more beautiful than the sunset view from the flying Strahl
Ashe: Back then, I didn’t pay attention to the surroundings around me.
Balthier: Some day, please take notice of it
Ashe: If you really think so.
“Ashe walks away and Balthier shrugs.”

QUOTE(Ringo @ May 5 2007, 12:59 PM) *

hmmm.....so my guess is you threw your DS out the window.
Well maybe Basch was smiling at Larsa cuz he's silently thanking Larsa for letting him visit Ashe? And Ashe's upset cuz Basch still couldn't come back to Dalmasca....?btw what was Basch and Ashe's first meeting like in RW??? Was it romantic ?

Remember the FMV from Trailer 7 in which Basch and Ashe looks at each other within the Leviathan. That's their first meeting. A little let down as we've seen it before but otherwise, I'm glad, at least they appear together. So, IMO, it is romantic biggrin.gif And that Levianthan belongs to Dalmasca, and it is the Queen's brigade, though it did not show how Basch got there. But after this scene, the party returns to Ivalice to meet up wtih Larsa, thus I presume Basch and Larsa went to Dalmasca undercover. Heh!! On a fangirl note, that's so sweet of Larsa to let Basch and Ashe spend some precious time alone on the Leviathan, and he waits patiently at the Estersand.

As for my DS, it still lying safely on my desk. I was seriously contemplating to flung my DS out of the ninth floor (though I reconsider and now I'm trying to come up with better tortures methods) when I saw the credits but I had to admit everything else apart from the end was satisfactory to me. Way to go, SE, once again you gave a good start but screwed up in the end... for me at least.

QUOTE(Ringo @ May 5 2007, 12:59 PM) *

So there are character drawings shown during credits? Like in FFXII? Yes, please! I'm glad Balthier's not after Ashe^^

Yes, during the credits, some static pictures are shown of what happened to the characters in the end. Something like epilogue actually instead of showing random shots, also there is a group pic followed by solo close up for each person:

Llyud: Staring at the horizon at birds flying freely with a smile on his face. Pretty much like his CG pic but he was smiling -- which is a big thing for him as Aegyl race have no heart and they don't understand feelings. All this is because of the usage of the Auracite (Sacred Crystal) which have a side effect of stealing their emotions. And thus, his story is resolved.

Balthier/Fran: He was kneeling at a grave and I presume it is Dr Cid's grave and Fran standing behind him. Both were smiling. Throughout the game, everytime someone mentions anything about father or family; he avoids the topic and walks away. There was actually one scene where they found relics of the third treasure of Glabatos (which was a gift from Flethenatos - the god of the Aegyl and also forefather to the Mydia's race, the Fall Viera - and it was actually the airship that Vaan was riding). There were some ancient inscriptions on the plate which says -- a gift to my beautiful wife and children. The moment he heard this, he made his way out of the room and Fran commented that he's a man who wants freedom and runs away from such things. Thus, in the end, when he finally decided to visit his dad's grave with a smile on his face and read it as he came into terms with his past and thus his story is also resolved.

Tomaj/Kytes/Filo: Tomaj was shown writing letters, he probably became a merchant. Kytes was holding a nethicite and had glasses on and he was surrounded by summons, he probably went on to become a mage. Filo was performing in a circus, she did mention earlier that she wants to practice her flying and she was shown walking on tightrope. All three fulfill their dreams and they were smiling. And thus, their story is resolved as well.

Vaan & Penelo: First pic shows them purchasing some stuff from a peddler with Penelo clinging to Vaan's arm. Then the zoom up shows both of them laughing happily. Let's take it that they got together and thus their story is resolved.

Basch/Ashe/Larsa: Their group ic shows Ashe staring out at a window with Basch behind her talking to a laughing Larsa. We can't see Basch expression in this pic as his back is to us. Then, the close ups, Larsa was smiling at Basch and you can see that big grin of his. While Basch gave a soft smile with his eyes closed. I don't know what are they so happy about but most likely that they are happy over the peace that is reigning in the country. So, it feels resolved as well.

Now, Ashe is not smiling, she looked dazed and she was staring at the air. What is her problem, for crying out loud, the captain that you missed so badly came back to you and is just standing behind you, so why don't you just lighten up and present that poor man a smile? Everyone else is smiling and their story is resolved. So why is she different? I came up with many explanations but I kept on contradicting myself.

1. She's scared of the burden that is to befall her when she becomes queen - not possible as throughout the game she was willing to fight tooth and nail to protect Dalmasca, so that wouldn't be it. Also, I don't thinks he wants freedom as in run off and abandon her work as there was one dialogue where she says that she wants to settle the Judge of Wings matter so she can get back to work.
2. She's thinking of Balthier - even more unlikely, as I would say that SE hinted Baltheir and Fran. Also, there were more scenes hinting Basch/Ashe than the other.
3. She's thinking of the past - I don't agree, she was the one that advise Llyud that people shouldn’t be caught up with the past. Also, when they were visiting a monument for the dead at Paramina Rift, she said that Ivalice is in a new era now and people should look to the future.

The only one explanation which I agree with Diorelli is that amybe she's lonely. After all, despite the fact that Basch is back, it is not permanent. Vaan and Penelo have each other for companion and so does, Balthier and Fran; Tomaj/Kytes/Filo/Llyud found something meaningful and important and they are going after their dreams. Basch would be accompanying Larsa back to Archadia soon. Which means in the end, she would be still all alone in the palace of Rabanastre.

Oh, I almost forgot. Regarding Balthier/Fran, there were hints and dialogues that hint towards their relationship, and so far, I recall three.

One happens when Fran was on Vaan's ship (Balthier is in a cave and ask Fran to guard the Strahl and also to keep her from harm), if you let vaan talk to Fran, he'll be asking Fran if Tomaj or Kytes is bothering her. Fran answered that nothing much apart from giving her flowers, trinkets and materials, Vaan was appalled and said that he'll talk to the of them as not to bother her. When Fran replied, she said she's fine with it, as Baltheir also does it often. smile.gif

Another happens when Fran says that she enjoys star-gazing. Balthier then said that she can watch it on the Strahl and walk away to another corner. Filo then mention that if she wants she can watch it on Vaan's airship as well. Fran said nothing and walk towards balthier direction and it ends with Penelo saying... Fran probably enjoy watching the stars better from the Strahl. wink.gif

Another scene is that Vaan ask what happen to them when after they left the Cache of Glabatos and attacked by the Judge of Wings. Fran said they escaped and Penelo cut in and ask if Fran nursed Balthier back to health (because Balthier was the one that was injured). She replied that Balthier is rather adorable when he can't move. laugh.gif

Sum up, seems like BalFran to me

@ Jenny
QUOTE(jenny @ May 5 2007, 01:05 PM) *

What about the scene where it appears Vaan is about to attack Balthier?

Ok, simply put. There was a misunderstanding. Vaan was trying to stop Balthier from destroying the Auracite. To Vaan, the Auracite is something important to Aegyl and that they shouldn't destroy it which is what the Judge of Wings was doing. In Vaan's view, Balthier destroying the Auracite puts him in the same league as the Judge of Wings. Baltheir gave no explanation either until after the battle in early Chapter 7. Till now, I'm quite confuse of the reason why the Judge of Wings wanted to destroy the Auracite, there were several reasons and one of it is she wanted to free the god of Aegyl. Also, apparently these Auracite consumed the Aegyl and other user's emotions, thus by demolishing it, those emotions would return to the people. Balthier knew this and wanted to destroy it but he didn't know the rest of the reasons. Anyhow, he didn't explain anything to Vaan and Vaan misunderstood his intention. And a battle ensued between Balthier and Fran with B'gamnan butting in 1/2 way.

Though, deep down, which was explored in Chapter 6, Vaan didn't believe that Balthier betrayed them and that something is amiss and that there must be an explanation for his actions. He found out soon enough in the same Chapter. And next, in the beginning of Chapter 7, Vaan gave Balthier a punch in the face, Penelo tried to stop the fight while Fran holds Penelo back. Let's just say, Fran decide that the matter is between the boys and that Balthier deserves that punch. laugh.gif

@ Sills
I do agree and disagree with some of your points. I don't think she was spying on them as she seems to be staring out a window instead of an entrance and it was one same picture. Please correct me if I'm wrong, for I'll cheer if what you are saying is true. Hmm... I'll have to replay this part to find out, but I'm still positive that she was staring out a window, though I'm having doubts right now. tongue.gif

Bit if there is one thing I do agree with you completely is that her forlorn expression is due to loneliness. After all, Basch is the last link to her past. Well, not exactly, I'm sure there are still some old ministers and captains and what nots. It's not possible that the knight's order has only two captains - Basch and Vossler. But Basch must have been really important to her for she took his absence harder than anything else. Also, she was smiling when the first appear together in that FMV of them in the Leviathan. laugh.gif

PS: Damn my crazy fingers... can't even take instructions properly!! I was replaying the game in order to see the credits again and see if what Sills said was true but I click the wrong button and end up with the darn side mission... against Zodiark (Lvl 95). My main party consists of characters with Lvl 70- 80. I didn't even have to try to know I'm screwed. So I reset and the worst is I didn't save the game, so that means start again from Chapter 8... and I was only 5 battles away from ending. Now I'll have to redo everything. Oh dear!! ::headdesk hard::

This post has been edited by aorin: May 6 2007, 09:00 PM


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Diorelli
post May 6 2007, 05:08 PM
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@ Sills

Nice post. You're the third person I read who thought Ashe was hiding/spying/eavesdropping. I think you have a point, she seems to be in the corner. And I don't think Basch and Larsa are insensitive people to be laughing and smiling if they knew Ashe was there being sad and lonely about something. They would have tried to cheer her up or try to include her in the conversation. IF they knew. So, you're explanation and the angle you see it absolutely makes sense. smile.gif


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Ringo
post May 7 2007, 10:24 AM
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QUOTE(aorin @ May 7 2007, 01:11 AM) *

HEAVY SPOILER ALERT:

Yes, as Diorelli said, she has more interaction with Basch than Balthier, or at least that's how we both see it. But why do this? Why even put Balthier in the picture when I can assure you that there were more dialogues hinting towards Fran/Balthier, why SE has to even conceive the possibility that she might be pining for a guy who's already taken instead of appreciating Basch who actually decides that returning to Dalmasca on occasion is not a sin.


I hope Sills's interpertation of the image is the right one cuz then it's definitely hinting towards BaschxAshe. (not saying that ur interpertation is wrong, just don't really want Ashe to be thinking about Balthier! He's obviously happy with Fran. Now we can't leave Fran lonely either can we?) Maybe SE will really surprise us with a proper sequel to FFXII biggrin.gif FFXII-2 ^___^!


QUOTE(aorin @ May 7 2007, 01:11 AM) *

And Basch catching Ashe (in sprite form), that was the best moment for me biggrin.gif I was awwwing and ooohing and giggling when that scene appears. Well, at least Basch decides to be more 'coughs physical coughs* in RW, so that's a good sign


aww that must have been a really cute scene to watch <3
He can still be more physical biggrin.gif
So what was the scene where Ashe and Basch's standing next to the river/sea/lake about?
As you can see I'm only interested in the Ashe and Basch story laugh.gif but since you mentioned about the Judge of Wings, may I ask, what was he about??? Why was he a Judge? Does it mean he's from Archadia too?


QUOTE(aorin @ May 7 2007, 01:11 AM) *

I mentioned in my review that RW feels resolve, they gave hints of what happen to the characters after the ending of FFXII. Everyone (the main cast) moved on, and everyone was smiling in the credits... but Ashe... why is that she always the one with a problem?

Haha yeah she does seem to be the one with problems all the time tongue.gif I really do think SE should make a proper sequel! They can't leave Ashe sad like that again. It's like there was no point in RW for Ashe's part, but then it must have been a real treat for Vaan and Penelo fans however PeneloxLarsa fans are probably crying.


QUOTE(aorin @ May 7 2007, 01:11 AM) *

Balthier: Some day, please take notice of it
Ashe: If you really think so.
“Ashe walks away and Balthier shrugs.”

hmmm yeah that conversation seems pretty pointless if SE are not trying to hint for BalthierxAshe. However, maybe SE's trying to show Ashe' snob side, and she's only nice to Basch tongue.gif who know? SE stop making Ashe's relationships so ambiguous!


QUOTE(aorin @ May 7 2007, 01:11 AM) *

Remember the FMV from Trailer 7 in which Basch and Ashe looks at each other within the Leviathan. That's their first meeting. A little let down as we've seen it before but otherwise, I'm glad, at least they appear together. So, IMO, it is romantic biggrin.gif And that Levianthan belongs to Dalmasca, and it is the Queen's brigade, though it did not show how Basch got there. But after this scene, the party returns to Ivalice to meet up wtih Larsa, thus I presume Basch and Larsa went to Dalmasca undercover. Heh!! On a fangirl note, that's so sweet of Larsa to let Basch and Ashe spend some precious time alone on the Leviathan, and he waits patiently at the Estersand.

Wow so Basch and Ashe made their first appearance together smile.gif That's really nice~
Larsa's always been a sweet little boy ^^

QUOTE(aorin @ May 7 2007, 01:11 AM) *

The only one explanation which I agree with Diorelli is that amybe she's lonely. After all, despite the fact that Basch is back, it is not permanent. Vaan and Penelo have each other for companion and so does, Balthier and Fran; Tomaj/Kytes/Filo/Llyud found something meaningful and important and they are going after their dreams. Basch would be accompanying Larsa back to Archadia soon. Which means in the end, she would be still all alone in the palace of Rabanastre.

Yeah I think Ashe' probably lonely since there are no new guys for her tongue.gif and Basch has to go back with Larsa. awww...poor Ashe. SE should have made Basch stay or something....

QUOTE(aorin @ May 7 2007, 01:11 AM) *

Oh, I almost forgot. Regarding Balthier/Fran, there were hints and dialogues that hint towards their relationship, and so far, I recall three.

From what you've described, it sure does seem like BalFran smile.gif
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post May 7 2007, 01:56 PM
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I'm sad that people find an entire game to be ruined/disapointing just because one character ended up differently in the credits. One character, of all the playable characters in RW. Sure Ashe can be a favourite character, but still, it seems... incredibly exagerated to me. unsure.gif I mean, I'm also sad that Penelo doesn't end up with Larsa (I mean, they are cute together, SE!) but that doesn't mean I'll be disappointed in the ending/game as a whole...




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post May 7 2007, 09:57 PM
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QUOTE(Ringo @ May 7 2007, 10:24 AM) *

I hope Sills's interpertation of the image is the right one cuz then it's definitely hinting towards BaschxAshe. (not saying that ur interpertation is wrong, just don't really want Ashe to be thinking about Balthier! He's obviously happy with Fran. Now we can't leave Fran lonely either can we?) Maybe SE will really surprise us with a proper sequel to FFXII biggrin.gif FFXII-2 ^___^!

I rewatched the credits again. I was hoping what Sills said was right and I was proven wrong... but no. She's definitely staring out at a window. It was a picture that showed her gazing absently at the sky with her hand on the balcony. Basch was at a distance behind her and walking towards Larsa, and he had a contented smile on his face. I stand firm on my view about her expression was due to loneliness.

But I do have another theory in mind now. Basch seem to walking away from her instead of standing there smiling at Larsa. I presume he just told her that he was leaving and Larsa came to greet him. High chances that they'll be returning to Archadia after that. If I were to consider the timeline, I would say that it was after Ashe's coronation, as Balthier and Fran had time to visit Dr Cid's grave while Filo had time to join the circus. So I take it that this happens a while after the ending, probably few days or a week later, so by then Ashe's coronation would be over. Personally, I think the pic gives out this meaning:

Larsa: I take it that you are happy with the arrangement and being able to attend Ashe's coronation. ::grins::
Basch: Aye, my lord. I'm contented. My heart is at peace ::smiles::
Ashe: But mine isn't! ::gaze at the sky::

And thus, I say Ashe was lonely in the end. And that she'll probably miss Basch again and judging from his clueless expression and that he was smiling at Larsa, I take it he had no idea what she's thinking. At least that's what I think the scene means, why put them together in the same picture if not to hint something was between them.

Oh yes, I do hope there's another sequel, though it probably wishful thinking at this point but who knows, if FFVII had that many games in its compilation, why not try to expand for FFXII. It'll be years before another sequel appears, but still Ashe's story seem to leave some open-end questions, and we have still yet to see Rozarria.

QUOTE(Ringo @ May 7 2007, 10:24 AM) *

aww that must have been a really cute scene to watch <3
He can still be more physical biggrin.gif
So what was the scene where Ashe and Basch's standing next to the river/sea/lake about?
As you can see I'm only interested in the Ashe and Basch story laugh.gif but since you mentioned about the Judge of Wings, may I ask, what was he about??? Why was he a Judge? Does it mean he's from Archadia too?

Of course, you are only interested in Basch and Ashe story, heck, I'm guilty of the crime as well. I was rushing through until they appeared in Chapter 8 and I was ecstatic to see them. If you would like to know more, I'll be more than happy to fill you in as you did say that you are not going to play the game, you missing out quite a bit, you know. And thank the heavens, Rasler was not mentioned at all in the game.

The scene of Ashe fainting... it was just divine. I slept really well that night. well, not exactly cute cause the scene happens after a terrible massacre of Aegyl by the Judge of Wings, it should be sad but hey, there's Basch/Ashe interaction so that'll be something to celebrate about.

Regarding the "River scene, here's the translation though it's not complete. Tell me what you think about it.

Ashe: The unknown floating continent is larger than Ivalice.
Basch: Aye. There are no airships and machineries, and the land are plentiful.
Ashe: And still. The Aegyl came down to the land and attacks us...
Basch: There is no one who truly desires war.
Ashe: You didn't change. How do you see... the present me?
Basch: But the wish of people, then your majesty’s own wish has already become one.
Ashe: ::turns around and face him:: ... Thank you.

The basic gist of what they said, there was another line that I didn't translate at his last sentence. I couldn't quite understand it and I'll ask my friend for help later. Anyhow, it confirms our earlier presumption that the discussion would be purely political and they are sharing their views. But still, somehow, Basch is the only person she can turn to about this and state her fears comfortably. In front of other people, she still puts up a tough front. to me, this scene shows the closeness of their relationship and that Ashe think highly of Basch's opinion and what he thinks about her matters a lot to her. So, more points for Basch/Ashe.

Ok, about the Judge of Wings. That's a tricky question and I'll try to answer your question as much as possible cause there are certain parts which i couldn't understand either, mostly their motive for fighting. First there are two Judge of Wings, because there are actually two characters who don on the armour. Ther first was Mydia, a Fall Viera with short ears, gold hair, fair skin and longer lifespan. The Fall Viera are the decendants of the god of Aegyl, Fleothenatos (I think that's how you spell) with a Viera woman, their race were shunned by other races and they went on to live in a Volcano called Roda mountain (north of Rozarria).

For generations, they have been living there and weren't allowed to leave. Mydia left the mountain and went to Rabanastre where she met Velis and they fall in love. Soon, Velis went away for war and died at the Battle of Nalbina. He wanted to protect those thathe love and he did promise that he'll return to her and together they'll go to Roda mountain. Later, Mydia went to pay her respects at the monument on Paramina Rift and she recalled something about her ancestors which promises eternity. Heart-broken and lost, she went to the Cache of Glabatos and found out about her origins. She took the third relic of Glabatos and subsequently released the Beiluge (Vaan's 2nd airship).

Soon, she lost her emotions after using the Sacred Crstal which would absorb those emotions. She then gather notorious sky-pirates and gave them pieces of sacred crystal and ordered them to destroy the main Auracite which would then free the Fleothenatos and release the emotions gathered within the stones. I suppose, she believed that by freeing Fleothenatos, it might give her a chance to revive Velis but it failed. Anyhow, Vaan and party stopped her after she massacre the remaining Fall Viera in her village. And she did and ask Vaan to fulfill her final wish and destroy the remaining Auracite so the Aegyl can be free once again.

Her reason for donning the armour was purely personal, something she did just to spite the Archadians. But it does give a bad impression of the Judges to the people of Ivalice. Which is why Larsa and basch was so concern about it that they made the trip to Dalmasca. Also, he scene where Basch fought one-on-one with JOW, she accuse him of being traitor by becoming a Judge and she released some undead (in which Basch easily killed). As usual, Basch did not relent and he stood firm to his ideals saying that he'll protect those who live.

As for the second JOW, it's Flethenatos himself. Sorry, I couldn't explain much about his story apart from the fact that he hopes to bring his family to Lemures. I didn't pay attention much to his tale but in the end, after you beat him, he fades away and entrust the future of Aegyl to Llyud and the future of Ivalice to Vaan's party.

Well, so much for political conflict which I was hoping for. JOW motives are pretty much personal revenge. Apart from mentioning that Dalmasca, Archadia and Rozarria are in good terms now, nothing much was mentioned about the countries. The Leviathan which Ashe and Basch boarded in their FMV belongs to Dalmasca and it was a gift of goodwill from Archadia along with the Ifrits.

QUOTE(Ringo @ May 7 2007, 10:24 AM) *

Haha yeah she does seem to be the one with problems all the time tongue.gif I really do think SE should make a proper sequel! They can't leave Ashe sad like that again. It's like there was no point in RW for Ashe's part, but then it must have been a real treat for Vaan and Penelo fans however PeneloxLarsa fans are probably crying.

For those Vaan and Penelo fans, they could build a shrine for this game. Almost every scene shows them talking to each other and of course, the scene where Penelo hugs Vaan and so forth. Vaan/Penelo fans would be dancing on cloud nine for this game. As for Larsa/Penelo, yeah, quite a disappointment as you can consider that Vaan/Penelo did hook-up in the end. But still, there were no love confessions from the both of them apart from Penelo saying that they'll always be together but then again, she was refering to the main party as well.

Larsa/Penelo fans... hehe... there are a few dialogues in which they might be interested in. This game mentioned that Penelo is a terrible chef and that only Vaan enjoys her cooking (though Kytes and Filo said the only reason he didn't mind was because he gobbles up the food and that he couldn't taste it, other orphans like Kytes and Filo always leave leftovers. By the end of the game, Penelo's cooking improved (Earlier she was worried that Ashe and Larsa might not like her food), and in the end, both Larsa and Ashe enjoyed it very much. To the extent that larsa even enlarge Penelo's shop on the lounge of Beiluge (there are four shops in the game - Tomaj, Llyud, Cu Sith, Penelo - after you finish certain missions, the size of the shop would grow). Larsa enjoyed Penelo's cooking so much that he generously built her a bigger shop. Well, I guess Larsa/penelo fans should be happy with the little hints of it, better than nothing actually.

Actually, the free side quest regarding this was one of my favourite in the game. Where the main cast (including Ashe, Basch, Balthier and Fran) went to the Giza Plains to search for food (a type of star shaped fruit on a tree). And the dialogue are as below:

Kytes: Err... Vaan. Is it all right for the captain and queen to scavenge for food with us?
Vaan: We can't fight with an empty stomach. Right, Basch?
Basch: Of course. Or are we not allowed to dine together?
Kytes: Th.. That wasn't what I meant.
- After battle -
Filo: Today, it was Penelo's idea to come out here.
Penelo: Yes. Since Ashe and Larsa are with us. I'll make delicious food for everyone.
Vaan: That's great. At least your culinary skills improve before meeting with Ashe and Larsa.
Penelo: What do mean by that!
Basch: Our stomachs are empty. We look forward to it.
Ashe: ... If it's Penelo, I think it should be fine. Do I sense a tinge of jealousy here, LOL
Penelo: Leave it to me!

QUOTE(Ringo @ May 7 2007, 10:24 AM) *

hmmm yeah that conversation seems pretty pointless if SE are not trying to hint for BalthierxAshe. However, maybe SE's trying to show Ashe' snob side, and she's only nice to Basch tongue.gif who know? SE stop making Ashe's relationships so ambiguous!

On the first look, it seems like SE hinting something but it is vague and we don't hear any VA so we can't really decide on their emotions then. When she mention Al-Cid, I suspect she was trying to hint something but as the conversation goes on, it seems more likely she was making absent remarks. the thing is my translation is rather misleading and the original text was even more vague. Bah, she didn't even look at him when they were speaking and when she leave so I perceive it as making small talk. SE probably just want to keep the relationship open when they realize that thye put in too much Basch/Ashe interaction to suggest otherwise. Still, the BalFran scenes dialogues weight much much more, you should count the times that Balthier runs to catch her when she feels the mist and went weak.

QUOTE(Ringo @ May 7 2007, 10:24 AM) *

Yeah I think Ashe' probably lonely since there are no new guys for her tongue.gif and Basch has to go back with Larsa. awww...poor Ashe. SE should have made Basch stay or something....

She wanted company, that much is certain, but she wouldn't force him to stay if he doesn't want to. After all, it was Basch's decision to go to Archadia, and she respects his decision. She understand that chaining him to her would do no good and that she rather gives him the freedom to do what he wants. Honestly, I'm not surprised if Basch never told her that the reason he left was to fulfill Noah's dying wish, and she probably misread his intention. Throughout the game, we only know that Basch is staying in Archadia to further the cause of peace in Ivalice (in FFXII, Penelo mentioned the same thing), this its highly possible that he told no one of his true reason. So, Ashe probaly didn't know and believes that she's not that important to him, and that he wanted to leave her. Also, Basch gained respect from Kytes and member of the resistance for joining Archadia for the sake of peace. In Basch's profile, a former member of the resistance wrote that Basch's existance is now a top secret and that he changed his name and is now serving the empire, and that he think it is really troublesome. Otherwise, he thinks that Basch is noble for giving up fame and fortune for the sake of peace.

Yeah, she should have demanded that Basch stays. For someone as imperious as her, I mildly surprise that she didn't insist he stays. As we can see in FFXII, Ashe strives to get what she wants, so letting go off Basch is a rather magnanimous act from her. The one time, she respects his decision, she loses him. Basch probably never knew how much he meant to her before reading the letter from Penelo, and he might have thought that a short visit to Ashe would be sufficient enough to end her loneliness. And obviously, he's wrong cause Ashe is still lonely in the end.

QUOTE(Ringo @ May 7 2007, 10:24 AM) *

From what you've described, it sure does seem like BalFran smile.gif

I'm positive it's BalFran, and I don't think it hint otherwise. In this game, so far there is a total of 3 relationship which happen between Viera and other races -- Mydia x Velis, Fleothenatos x Viera wife, and a Seeq sky-pirate with his Viera wife. This sort of hint that Viera and Hume relationship can work. They could have shown Seeq x Bangaa or Garif x Baknamy. Heh... so BalFran would work in this game and I'm positive that there were enough hints that points this direction.

QUOTE(Refia @ May 7 2007, 01:56 PM) *

I'm sad that people find an entire game to be ruined/disapointing just because one character ended up differently in the credits. One character, of all the playable characters in RW. Sure Ashe can be a favourite character, but still, it seems... incredibly exagerated to me. unsure.gif I mean, I'm also sad that Penelo doesn't end up with Larsa (I mean, they are cute together, SE!) but that doesn't mean I'll be disappointed in the ending/game as a whole...

Hmmm... somehow I'm taking this comment personally. I'm one of those who complain about the disappointing ending and credits, and I was only refering to Ashe's part of the story. Otherwise, I'm quite satisfied with the others. If you read my earlier post, not once did I mentioned the game was ruin because of the ending. I was quite neutral on the game and I did enjoy it very much. Never once did I say that I was disappointed in the game as a whole, if I enjoyed it any less, I won't be on my 2nd play-through going 3rd.

Truthfully, and I've mentioned this earlier, SE did not resolve Ashe's story and that's a really big thing for me because that was one of the things that I expect them to resolve. Throwing me back to square one after the length of RW and telling me that she's still unhappy for unexplainable reasons and leaving it to our own imagination is not what I was hoping for. To me, I expect some concrete confirmation for her story and not leave us in the dark. This might be the last sequel for FFXII and it ends with a uncertain note. Everyone else was smiling and their story was resolve and only Ashe's was not and that peeved me.

Of course, there were times when I was inclined to throw the game out of the room but that's because I was upset over the lack of resolve for my favourite pairing and not because I hate the game. RW is a good game in my book and I enjoyed very much (though I still cringe when I reach the ending and credits).


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post May 9 2007, 04:51 AM
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QUOTE(aorin @ May 8 2007, 07:57 AM) *


Basch seem to walking away from her instead of standing there smiling at Larsa. I presume he just told her that he was leaving and Larsa came to greet him. High chances that they'll be returning to Archadia after that. If I were to consider the timeline, I would say that it was after Ashe's coronation, as Balthier and Fran had time to visit Dr Cid's grave while Filo had time to join the circus. So I take it that this happens a while after the ending, probably few days or a week later, so by then Ashe's coronation would be over. Personally, I think the pic gives out this meaning:

Larsa: I take it that you are happy with the arrangement and being able to attend Ashe's coronation. ::grins::
Basch: Aye, my lord. I'm contented. My heart is at peace ::smiles::
Ashe: But mine isn't! ::gaze at the sky::


I think this is the best interpretation so far! yay~
I think you might just be right smile.gif Ofcourse we'll never know unless SE decides to comment about it tongue.gif

QUOTE(aorin @ May 8 2007, 07:57 AM) *

but still Ashe's story seem to leave some open-end questions, and we have still yet to see Rozarria.

hahah yeah I want to see Rozarria too. I've always got the idea that the citizens there walk around with sunglasses tongue.gif and yes, Ashe needs a proper ending to her story ^^


QUOTE(aorin @ May 8 2007, 07:57 AM) *

Of course, you are only interested in Basch and Ashe story, heck, I'm guilty of the crime as well. I was rushing through until they appeared in Chapter 8 and I was ecstatic to see them. If you would like to know more, I'll be more than happy to fill you in as you did say that you are not going to play the game, you missing out quite a bit, you know. And thank the heavens, Rasler was not mentioned at all in the game.

Well I'm not planning to buy a DS just for RW since I'm not really interested in the other DS games....tongue.gif so yeah I'm counting on your to fill me in biggrin.gif haha~
There was probably no point bring up the Rasler topic, since he probably won't contribute to the story that much anyway ^^

QUOTE(aorin @ May 8 2007, 07:57 AM) *

The scene of Ashe fainting... it was just divine. I slept really well that night. well, not exactly cute cause the scene happens after a terrible massacre of Aegyl by the Judge of Wings, it should be sad but hey, there's Basch/Ashe interaction so that'll be something to celebrate about.

hahah yeah its like a dream come true for all BaschxAshe fans smile.gif *cheers*


QUOTE(aorin @ May 8 2007, 07:57 AM) *

Regarding the "River scene, here's the translation though it's not complete. Tell me what you think about it.

Ashe: The unknown floating continent is larger than Ivalice.
Basch: Aye. There are no airships and machineries, and the land are plentiful.
Ashe: And still. The Aegyl came down to the land and attacks us...
Basch: There is no one who truly desires war.
Ashe: You didn't change. How do you see... the present me?
Basch: But the wish of people, then your majesty’s own wish has already become one.
Ashe: ::turns around and face him:: ... Thank you.

the unkown floating continent? whats that?? blink.gif
IMO Ashe seemed like she was shy around him with the stammer (I'll take "...." as a stammer ^^) and asking him that question smile.gif So yes BaschxAshe it is. And with your new interpretation of the ending, I'm sure SE paired them up already. Just didn't end with a happily resolved ending.

QUOTE(aorin @ May 8 2007, 07:57 AM) *

Ok, about the Judge of Wings. That's a tricky question and I'll try to answer your question as much as possible cause there are certain parts which i couldn't understand either, mostly their motive for fighting.

Thanks for the explaination smile.gif
Seemed like Judges of Wings story was not that interesting since it was just about personal conflicts/reasons etc....I actually thought they were real Judges of Archadia.....so I though there was some sort of political war going on, like in FFXII. Seemed like SE just introduced those two Judge characters as Judges of Wings so that they can wonder around in Judge armours looking cool tongue.gif and with wings...haha such a typical Japanese game/manga character element tongue.gif

QUOTE(aorin @ May 8 2007, 07:57 AM) *

Kytes: Err... Vaan. Is it all right for the captain and queen to scavenge for food with us?
Vaan: We can't fight with an empty stomach. Right, Basch?
Basch: Of course. Or are we not allowed to dine together?
Kytes: Th.. That wasn't what I meant.
- After battle -
Filo: Today, it was Penelo's idea to come out here.
Penelo: Yes. Since Ashe and Larsa are with us. I'll make delicious food for everyone.
Vaan: That's great. At least your culinary skills improve before meeting with Ashe and Larsa.
Penelo: What do mean by that!
Basch: Our stomachs are empty. We look forward to it.
Ashe: ... If it's Penelo, I think it should be fine. Do I sense a tinge of jealousy here, LOL
Penelo: Leave it to me!

haha that was a cute situation biggrin.gif seemed like they all went on a picnic.

QUOTE(aorin @ May 8 2007, 07:57 AM) *

Still, the BalFran scenes dialogues weight much much more, you should count the times that Balthier runs to catch her when she feels the mist and went weak.

Sounds like Balthier was being more physical as well tongue.gif
Yeah I'm sure SE made them as a couple right from the start... if it wasn't for that pre-ending FMV in FFXII I'm sure ppl won't get the BalthierxAshe idea.

QUOTE(aorin @ May 8 2007, 07:57 AM) *

Yeah, she should have demanded that Basch stays. For someone as imperious as her, I mildly surprise that she didn't insist he stays. As we can see in FFXII, Ashe strives to get what she wants, so letting go off Basch is a rather magnanimous act from her.

Yeah I see your point, she should have gave him a slap when he said he's going off to Archadia tongue.gif I guess when you like someone you'll respect that persons opinions smile.gif Another point for BaschxAshe ^^


QUOTE(Refia @ May 7 2007, 01:56 PM) *

I'm sad that people find an entire game to be ruined/disapointing just because one character ended up differently in the credits. One character, of all the playable characters in RW. Sure Ashe can be a favourite character, but still, it seems... incredibly exagerated to me. unsure.gif I mean, I'm also sad that Penelo doesn't end up with Larsa (I mean, they are cute together, SE!) but that doesn't mean I'll be disappointed in the ending/game as a whole...

We never mentioned that we think RW sucked just cuz Ashe ended up lonely. We were only discussing our opinions on the ending smile.gif

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post May 9 2007, 11:59 AM
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QUOTE(Ringo @ May 9 2007, 04:51 AM) *

QUOTE(Refia @ May 7 2007, 01:56 PM) *

I'm sad that people find an entire game to be ruined/disapointing just because one character ended up differently in the credits. One character, of all the playable characters in RW. Sure Ashe can be a favourite character, but still, it seems... incredibly exagerated to me. unsure.gif I mean, I'm also sad that Penelo doesn't end up with Larsa (I mean, they are cute together, SE!) but that doesn't mean I'll be disappointed in the ending/game as a whole...

We never mentioned that we think RW sucked just cuz Ashe ended up lonely. We were only discussing our opinions on the ending smile.gif

Kay, so maybe I exagerated a bit. My apologies

But still. Ashe ends up lonely, what's new? SE did smart I think. This ending is a safe one. Hints at Ashe x BAsch for the fans, but not too much so it doesn't hurt the haters. (Yeah, there are people who dislike AxB, recently I met one again.) It's just the safest way. Course, if they make another XII sequel in which the two end up married, now then I'm getting worried. *Shivers at the thought of AxB haters flooding the forums*


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post May 9 2007, 01:08 PM
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QUOTE(Ringo @ May 9 2007, 04:51 AM) *

I think this is the best interpretation so far! yay~
I think you might just be right smile.gif Ofcourse we'll never know unless SE decides to comment about it tongue.gif

Heh... and since SE decides to go back to the ambiguous route for Ashe's relationship then fine, I'll draw my own conclusions and intepretations of the scenes and the possible meaning of the ending. Well, that's probably what they want us to do, so I taking up the challenge again and trying to figure out Ashe's expression. I think SE would want to play safe which is why the gave such an ending. But still, after two games, this is what I get, no conclusion and all because they rather play safe and keep everything subtle.

QUOTE(Ringo @ May 9 2007, 04:51 AM) *

hahah yeah I want to see Rozarria too. I've always got the idea that the citizens there walk around with sunglasses tongue.gif and yes, Ashe needs a proper ending to her story ^^

I expect her to be at least be happy like everyone else. Everything seem resolve but hers. Unless they are planning on another sequel which I highly doubt would happen but ending the game on such a strain note just bugs me.

And Rozarria, you've read Courtly Love so you know how I picture them. Attitude wise, I think they would be the same as Archadians - you know, all snobbish and proud - but also I picture them as being more hot-headed, and passionate about things while Archadians are cool about most things and rather act dignified, and high and mighty. They don't like being challenge by Archadians and would fight back. But still, how harmful can a visit to Rozarria be? They made the war between Rozarria and Archadia such an issue and that they have been fighting for years and all animosity was resolved after one year the war end.

And the sunglasses, heh, I think Al-Cid is one of a kind and only he wears it.

QUOTE(Ringo @ May 9 2007, 04:51 AM) *

Well I'm not planning to buy a DS just for RW since I'm not really interested in the other DS games....tongue.gif so yeah I'm counting on your to fill me in biggrin.gif haha~
There was probably no point bring up the Rasler topic, since he probably won't contribute to the story that much anyway ^^

I would lend you my DS and the game if you weren't so far away. Oh, don't worry I will fill you in. There aren't many scenes of them but I'm sure you would like to know more, right? There was actually one scene where Vaan, Ashe and Basch were actually joking together. Quite a pleasant surprise for me cause I didn't know Ashe can actually lighten up and Basch could actually make a joke.

And Rasler, you have no idea how many times in the game I was dreading his name might pop out. There were many times when the subject of revenge and the Battle of Nalbina was brought up and i biting my nails hoping that he would not be mentioned. As I rather story don't go out of focus again by bringing up the name of dead people, though I did expect them to at least mention Reddas cause his three sidekicks keeps on popping up all the time.

QUOTE(Ringo @ May 9 2007, 04:51 AM) *

the unkown floating continent? whats that?? blink.gif
IMO Ashe seemed like she was shy around him with the stammer (I'll take "...." as a stammer ^^) and asking him that question smile.gif So yes BaschxAshe it is. And with your new interpretation of the ending, I'm sure SE paired them up already. Just didn't end with a happily resolved ending.

When she said unknown flying continent, she was actually refering to the lands on Lemures. This land has just been discovered and she was discussin about it with Basch while sharing her fears. (...) Yes, I suppose it is a stammer, she was probably thining the best way to anser him without making him feel uncomfortable. Somehow, Ashe being unsure and nevous makes her really adorable cause she always seem so tough most of the time.

I told you before, I'd expect some form of resolvement from them. Of course, I don't expect an ending with them kissing, making out and getting married (I can dream but I don't expect that to ever happen) but still, showing Ashe being lonely and sad in the credits after all the hints and hints and more hints of Basch x Ashe. What's the point? It feels as though they are dangling the possiblity before our eyes but decide to not let us have it in the end. And yes, I'm happy with my final intepretation and looking at the expression that Ashe gave him at the ending made me squeal (well, at least before she turn to Balthier and Fran's direction). I going to play through the ending one more time, because I want to find out if Ashe went down to the cockpit with Balthier and Fran or she stayed on the dock with Basch and Vaan and co. I can't quite see it properly as the scene was really fast.

On a happier note, the expression on Ashe's face when she turn to Basch in the ending FMV was just great <3333 laugh.gif Cheers, girl!!! (Did I also mention she smiles at him in all their FMV together) Click on the image and see for yourself. happy.gif

QUOTE(Ringo @ May 9 2007, 04:51 AM) *

Seemed like Judges of Wings story was not that interesting since it was just about personal conflicts/reasons etc....I actually thought they were real Judges of Archadia.....so I though there was some sort of political war going on, like in FFXII. Seemed like SE just introduced those two Judge characters as Judges of Wings so that they can wonder around in Judge armours looking cool tongue.gif and with wings...haha such a typical Japanese game/manga character element tongue.gif

A little let down but I guess I'm fine with it. Of course, I would be more interested if they deal with the politcal aspect reather than sky-pirates adventure but since this is a Vaan and Penelo story, I think I shouldn't expect too much political conflict thrown in. Infact, Basch and Ashe joining your party for a fight is already a bonus to all of us. SE could ahve done worse by making them NPC and they are only there to advice you.

QUOTE(Ringo @ May 9 2007, 04:51 AM) *

haha that was a cute situation biggrin.gif seemed like they all went on a picnic.

This is what I like about RW, there is so much senseless and unncessary conversations between the character that you can consider it fillers and yet it does show character interaction between them. It quite a refresh feeling after FFXII where there are so little interaction. And if you think there is lack of interaction between Vaan/Penelo in FFXII,you would shock to see how much they talk in this game. laugh.gif

QUOTE(Ringo @ May 9 2007, 04:51 AM) *

Sounds like Balthier was being more physical as well tongue.gif
Yeah I'm sure SE made them as a couple right from the start... if it wasn't for that pre-ending FMV in FFXII I'm sure ppl won't get the BalthierxAshe idea.

Actually, eveyone was less serious and more physical in RW. I wouldn't say that SE confirm Basch x Ashe as a couple but there were certainly enough hints pointing to the possibility of this direction in both FFXII and RW. smile.gif

QUOTE
But still. Ashe ends up lonely, what's new? SE did smart I think. This ending is a safe one. Hints at Ashe x BAsch for the fans, but not too much so it doesn't hurt the haters. (Yeah, there are people who dislike AxB, recently I met one again.) It's just the safest way. Course, if they make another XII sequel in which the two end up married, now then I'm getting worried. *Shivers at the thought of AxB haters flooding the forums*

I agree that SE would rather keep the relationship subtle as they did before in FFXII just so in order to cater to both fans. I'm happy with the hints for Basch x Ashe throughout the game but I still don't like how Balthier was thrown in again to the picture in the ending. Honestly, I do not expect SE to show them kissing, making out and married in the end. But I do at least expect some form of conclusion about their relationship (whether it is Basch, Balthier or Al-Cid).

And Ashe ended up lonely, you ask me what's new. Nothing actually. The problem is there is nothing new about this and that it is the same old story, Ashe still mopes in the end, something that should have been resolved in the sequel. It's like there is no resolvement for her story. FFXII focuses so much on her bitterness, revenge, hatred, worries and everything else and they still say she's unhappy after two games. IMO, the ending was not proper enough and not a good enough conclusion for her story. sad.gif

Simply put, back to square one again after RW.... blink.gif


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Refia
post May 9 2007, 03:15 PM
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QUOTE(aorin @ May 9 2007, 01:08 PM) *

QUOTE
But still. Ashe ends up lonely, what's new? SE did smart I think. This ending is a safe one. Hints at Ashe x BAsch for the fans, but not too much so it doesn't hurt the haters. (Yeah, there are people who dislike AxB, recently I met one again.) It's just the safest way. Course, if they make another XII sequel in which the two end up married, now then I'm getting worried. *Shivers at the thought of AxB haters flooding the forums*

I agree that SE would rather keep the relationship subtle as they did before in FFXII just so in order to cater to both fans. I'm happy with the hints for Basch x Ashe throughout the game but I still don't like how Balthier was thrown in again to the picture in the ending. Honestly, I do not expect SE to show them kissing, making out and married in the end. But I do at least expect some form of conclusion about their relationship (whether it is Basch, Balthier or Al-Cid).

And Ashe ended up lonely, you ask me what's new. Nothing actually. The problem is there is nothing new about this and that it is the same old story, Ashe still mopes in the end, something that should have been resolved in the sequel. It's like there is no resolvement for her story. FFXII focuses so much on her bitterness, revenge, hatred, worries and everything else and they still say she's unhappy after two games. IMO, the ending was not proper enough and not a good enough conclusion for her story. sad.gif

Simply put, back to square one again after RW.... blink.gif

Maybe you'll get what you want in a possible RW sequel.

This post has been edited by Refia: May 9 2007, 07:36 PM


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post May 10 2007, 01:55 AM
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QUOTE(Refia @ May 9 2007, 09:59 PM) *

But still. Ashe ends up lonely, what's new? SE did smart I think. This ending is a safe one. Hints at Ashe x BAsch for the fans, but not too much so it doesn't hurt the haters. (Yeah, there are people who dislike AxB, recently I met one again.) It's just the safest way. Course, if they make another XII sequel in which the two end up married, now then I'm getting worried. *Shivers at the thought of AxB haters flooding the forums*

laugh.gif If SE paired them up in FFXII, I don't think there will be that much haters wink.gif
But yeah @ least the ending and pairings in FFXII is different to, say, FF8, FF9, FF10 where its so obvious who the couples are without even have to go through the game tongue.gif


QUOTE(aorin @ May 9 2007, 11:08 PM) *

I think SE would want to play safe which is why the gave such an ending. But still, after two games, this is what I get, no conclusion and all because they rather play safe and keep everything subtle.

Yeah its like there is no ending for Ashe tongue.gif
At least this leaves room for fanfictions^^

QUOTE(aorin @ May 9 2007, 11:08 PM) *

I would lend you my DS and the game if you weren't so far away. Oh, don't worry I will fill you in. There aren't many scenes of them but I'm sure you would like to know more, right? There was actually one scene where Vaan, Ashe and Basch were actually joking together. Quite a pleasant surprise for me cause I didn't know Ashe can actually lighten up and Basch could actually make a joke.

hehe that sounds like another cute scene smile.gif The characters were all so serious in FFXII (apart from Vaan)............anymore cute scenes? biggrin.gif

QUOTE(aorin @ May 9 2007, 11:08 PM) *

somehow, Ashe being unsure and nevous makes her really adorable cause she always seem so tough most of the time.

Yeah she's so different from Rinoa, Garnet and Yuan--the other princesses.

QUOTE(aorin @ May 9 2007, 11:08 PM) *

I going to play through the ending one more time, because I want to find out if Ashe went down to the cockpit with Balthier and Fran or she stayed on the dock with Basch and Vaan and co. I can't quite see it properly as the scene was really fast.

haha going thru again^^? Let me know when you're sure biggrin.gif

QUOTE(aorin @ May 9 2007, 11:08 PM) *

On a happier note, the expression on Ashe's face when she turn to Basch in the ending FMV was just great <3333 laugh.gif Cheers, girl!!! (Did I also mention she smiles at him in all their FMV together) Click on the image and see for yourself. happy.gif

awww thats such a sweet pic (if only she didn't turn around to look at the others like you said). They look like little plastic dolls ^^. Basch looks like he's daydreaming looking at Ashe like that tongue.gif
Thanks for sharing the pic btw smile.gif

QUOTE(aorin @ May 9 2007, 11:08 PM) *

Infact, Basch and Ashe joining your party for a fight is already a bonus to all of us. SE could ahve done worse by making them NPC and they are only there to advice you.

lol. Don't think Basch and Ashe fans will play RW if they are just NPC^^

BTW why did Basch and Ashe join Vaan's party in the first place? The story took place right after the ending FMV of FFXII right? So shouldn't Ashe be busy with getting ready for the coronation instead of flying round Ivalice^^? And why did Basch showed up with Ashe? (not that I'm complaining;)) Did he and Larsa just went to visit her as part of holiday^^?

QUOTE(aorin @ May 9 2007, 11:08 PM) *

And if you think there is lack of interaction between Vaan/Penelo in FFXII,you would shock to see how much they talk in this game. laugh.gif

I think that's more realistic. I've always thought that Vaan and Penelo talk to each other alot (and probably innocent talks). They just seem like little kids ^^

QUOTE(aorin @ May 9 2007, 11:08 PM) *

But I do at least expect some form of conclusion about their relationship (whether it is Basch, Balthier or Al-Cid).

hmmm....but then I guess that will still leave a lot of people unhappy^^ No matter what SE do there will always be unhappy fans.....so in conclusion, I think SE should just pair Basch and Ashe up laugh.gif period.

This post has been edited by Ringo: May 10 2007, 04:04 AM
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post May 11 2007, 09:41 AM
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QUOTE(Ringo @ May 10 2007, 01:55 AM) *

Yeah its like there is no ending for Ashe tongue.gif
At least this leaves room for fanfictions^^

My dear girl, you are just so optimistic about almost everything. Oh yes, that's probably the only good thing about her unconfirmed ending. FFXII is pretty much a feast for fanfic writers cause everything is so subtle and free for intepretation -- and thus, endless possibilities.

QUOTE(Ringo @ May 10 2007, 01:55 AM) *

hehe that sounds like another cute scene smile.gif The characters were all so serious in FFXII (apart from Vaan)............anymore cute scenes? biggrin.gif

I've heard some people say that RW feels like a rip off from fanfiction. Maybe, because everything about the game is light-hearted in comparison to the original. Furthermore, this game focuses so much on Vaan goofing around and his band of adolescent sky-pirates, I think it's quite hard to be serious. Let's see, other cute scenes, I recall another one:

Vaan & Basch
It happens when Vaan went up to Basch and ask if he should address him as Basch or Gabranth. To which, Basch answers he's fine with both and it's pretty much up to Vaan's preference. Then Vaan said Basch is Basch so he'll stick with the his real name. Basch said fine but he told Vaan to be cautious when he addresses him as Basch especially at crowded areas (Basch's identity is still top secret). And Vaan ended up shouting, "No problem, Basch!" when they were surrounded by crowds of people. And it ends with Basch sighing. Some things never change, do they?

I think there are others as well. But I can't recall at the moment. One thing I can confirm what Diorelli said earlier was that when Basch went out alone to deal with the Judge of Wings. Ashe was the one who shouted his name. Anyhow, I'll post up the scene about Basch joking and Ashe actually lightening up to his joke later. I left the script at home.

QUOTE(Ringo @ May 10 2007, 01:55 AM) *

haha going thru again^^? Let me know when you're sure biggrin.gif

I've replayed the last three chapters about three times to watch the ending and credits. And I still haven't bother to get a complete 100%. But I've watched the secret ending from somewhere else though.

And final verdict, Ashe stayed on the deck with Basch. :: throws confetti:: Fran, Balthier and Nono went down to the cockpit to fly the Strahl. Kytes, Filo and Tomaj stood together at one side. Vaan and Penelo at the front while Ashe stood in front of Basch at another side of the ship. And the fangirl squeals with joy over the discovery, also I notice in the credits, they placed Ashe forlourn solo pic below Basch's pic. She was staring up... and to me, it looks as though she was staring at him. Haha... another crazy fangirl note, but I think SE deliberately place the pictures according to that sequence. Why else would they do such a thing? I mean, this is just like FFXII where we wonder why Ashe and Basch sequences basically comes after one another. wink.gif

QUOTE(Ringo @ May 10 2007, 01:55 AM) *

awww thats such a sweet pic (if only she didn't turn around to look at the others like you said). They look like little plastic dolls ^^. Basch looks like he's daydreaming looking at Ashe like that tongue.gif
Thanks for sharing the pic btw smile.gif

No prob. Well, she only gave that look to Basch actually. She turn to Fran and Balthier's direction but her expression changed and it wasn't so sweet. Plastic dolls ^___^ true, ture, but very nice looking plastic dolls. And I do like Basch 'daydream' expression as well. Hehe... actually she turn to look at him and then he turn to acknowledge her. biggrin.gif

QUOTE(Ringo @ May 10 2007, 01:55 AM) *

lol. Don't think Basch and Ashe fans will play RW if they are just NPC^^

Most likely they'll get less fanbase to buy RW. After all, Basch, Ashe, Fran, Balthier and Larsa are actually the more popular characters in fandom so if they decide not to involve them, it would most certainly affect their sales. blink.gif

QUOTE(Ringo @ May 10 2007, 01:55 AM) *

BTW why did Basch and Ashe join Vaan's party in the first place? The story took place right after the ending FMV of FFXII right? So shouldn't Ashe be busy with getting ready for the coronation instead of flying round Ivalice^^? And why did Basch showed up with Ashe? (not that I'm complaining;)) Did he and Larsa just went to visit her as part of holiday^^?

The first eight chapters were about Vaan's adventure at Lemures, apparently the barrier that guard Lemures was destroyed after Vaan, Balthier and Mydia took the three Glabatos relics. So the notorious sky-pirates (prompted by JOW) were free to explore Lemures but that lead to the disruption of the Aegyl's life. After the main Sacred Crystal were destroyed as well, the Aegyl race recover their emotions and kind of went over to attack Ivalice. Many Auracite were scattered around Ivalice and creating havoc, Ashe then decides to investigate on this matter and met up with Vaan and co. Basch on the other hand along with Larsa found out about the JOW, and feels that JOW is threatening the peace and also the good image that Archadia was trying to build. Of course, the Auracite causing chaos was also another reason. So, I think they decided investigate the matter as well.

Which leads to the FMV showing Basch on Ashe's fleet to greet Vaan and co at Lemures. Immediately after that, they return to Ivalice to meet up with Larsa at the Dalmasca Estersand. LOL, Larsa probably just want Basch and Ashe to have some quality time alone while he enjoys the freedom of wandering around the Estersand. Overall, Vaan and co spent more than a week on Lemures but maybe Ashe's coronation was delayed due to the unexpected events of JOW. The game didn't mention if this happens specifically after the coronation or before but personally I think it is before. Cause there is still a month before her coronation and I think the entire JOW incident happens within that month.

She's already recognized as the queen beforehand, and the coronation is just one of the formalities. Both ideas are possible, but if the whole event happen after Ashe coronation, that means that no one would be able to attend. Vaan and co; Balthier and Fran are at Lemures chasing after JOW so they can't make it. Basch and Larsa only met up with Ashe after the JOW incident occured, so highly impossible that it took place before her coronation. Like I said, the credits seem to happen after the coronation cause everyone seem busy with their own work. And I still think that Ashe is lonely and upset over the fact that she's alone and Basch is leaving with Larsa soon. sad.gif

QUOTE(Ringo @ May 10 2007, 01:55 AM) *

hmmm....but then I guess that will still leave a lot of people unhappy^^ No matter what SE do there will always be unhappy fans.....so in conclusion, I think SE should just pair Basch and Ashe up laugh.gif period.

Agreed. Just give us a conclusion and let the fans deal with it. hehe... I think we are being a little demanding here. tongue.gif


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post May 11 2007, 12:43 PM
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Eh so many spoilers shok.gif

DAM YOU!

How are the summons? Are there alot of common old school ones? I want some examples XD


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