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> executions, should we have them?
Fox
post Nov 27 2007, 05:17 PM
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...yes. I'm starting to worry that what it says in your signature isn't just innocent messing around on a forum!!!


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the x reaper
post Nov 27 2007, 05:26 PM
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QUOTE(Fox @ Nov 27 2007, 05:17 PM) *

...yes. I'm starting to worry that what it says in your signature isn't just innocent messing around on a forum!!!

it isnt.......


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JudasOne
post Nov 28 2007, 12:29 AM
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QUOTE
Also, execution creates a whole new group of victims in the loved ones of the executed.


Do you seriously believe that? You want society to feel sorry for a murder's loved ones? And we give his victims family closure by providing 3 hots and a cot, full medical care, color tv with cable and throw in a college education. Because he committed murder. That sounds humane. fair and just.

Its bleeding hearts that help keep the threat of capital punishment from working. People that preach reform and you never know what's wrong with the killers head have obviously never been a victim or had a loved one be a victim of violent crime. Than I dare say you would probably step up to cast the first stone.

The real problem with capital punishment is that even after a conviction they get years before it comes time to execute. I say we throw in an expresss lane. Anytime we have DNA evidence(and 99.9% is close enough), other physical evidence, a confession and/or witnesses I think they should go right from the courtroom and end it. That would deterr would be murderers and such.
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Fox
post Nov 28 2007, 12:44 AM
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"and 99.9% is close enough"

I thoroughly believe that if we only ever sentence people to death when we're 99.9% certain or more, then if ONE person who is later proved innocent is killed by this, then all who support capital punishment have essentially murdered him.

I'm sure none of the supporters feel that way or lose any sleep over that though cause it's not like you snuck into his house and stabbed him in his sleep...

...you did call for the head of an innocent man though - be that the case.


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JudasOne
post Nov 28 2007, 12:59 AM
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I could live with it.

Do you really think we shouldn't have capital punishment because there is a chance that we might execute an innocent person?

Do you really think that many innocent people have been executed?

But in the mean time we let other killers run rampant and murder actual innocent people with little or no fear of an exacting punishment for their crimes.

The proverbial 'Slap on the Wrist" is your proposal.

Brilliant.
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Fox
post Nov 28 2007, 01:22 AM
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Removing their freedom and locking them away for the rest of their lives isn't a "slap on the wrist". A fine or a ocuple of years in Jail is a slap on the wrist.

And if they're locked up forever then they're not exaclty running rampant.

If the argument is "many of them get parole after just 10 years or less" than thats an issue with Parole, and I agree it's wrong, but that doesn't validate capital punishment. It doesn't make murder right just because the current imprisonment system is wrong.

Whatever spin you put on it: CP is legalized murder. And yet these people are dying because they broke the law by murdering someone. How can it be wrong for THESE people to commit murder but right for some other people to do it? Hippocritical or what?


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JudasOne
post Nov 28 2007, 01:49 AM
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No I dont think its hypocritical at all. I call it an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

Maybe you don't know it but jail is not that much of a punishment. They really got it made in there to a degree. I buily a prison not too awful long ago and seeing how they were spending my tax money on miscreants made me sick to my stomach. they actually had fountain drinks in each cell block and a warehouse full of color tv's so when they ruined one it coild be replaced.

And I'll take the legalized murder of a convicted killer over the unlawful death of innocents any day of the week.
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Fox
post Nov 28 2007, 01:53 AM
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^ Seeing a prison may make it look quite snazzy, but try living in one and I'm sure you'll soon change your attitude.

Try it at home. Lock yourself in a bedroom for a month with a TV with 4 channels and a couple of books. Eating what you're told to, being taken down to the garden for half an hour to exersice everyday at a pre-determined time. Lights out by a certain time...up to mend some sacks or sew clothes for a few hours for no pay. You'l realize what a punishment it is to have the freedom's you take for granted taken away when you experience it. Maybe add a cell mate to the equation. You'll be miserable after a week, let alone a month.

Then imagine spending the rest of your life like that.

And I havn't been in jail but I have tried a similar experiment during one week in a summer holidays a year or so back. One week, four bathroom breaks a day. The rest is the same except I had a games console and mroe books in my room. And I was hating it before the week was up.

It's a much more effective and torturous punishment than it looks.

Edit: Oh, remember to move the toilet into your room so you can enjoy the smell at night. It'll add to the realism


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JudasOne
post Nov 28 2007, 02:17 AM
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For starters they get cable. And they can get pretty much whatever they want to eat from the commissary truck that comes around every day and only the ppl in solitary get only a half an hour of rec each day. they also have a good sized library. Mostly fiiled with law books so they can find a loophole to get out early.

I've had the pleasure of working with several individuals that have done serious time. Each one of them said its not nearly as bad you might think. Ever wonder why the population of a jail doubles in the winter months?

And it should be a miserable experience. Its supposed to be a deterrent remember? I feel absolutely no pity for anyone under incarceration. Especially murderers and the like.

I only feel sorry for the families of their victims who's taxes have to pay to feed and clothe those bastards for the length of their stay. That is gross injustice.
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Paka
post Nov 28 2007, 02:24 AM
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Yes, I do feel very sorry for the loved ones of those executed, especially the children. Sometimes helps to read accounts from relatives, like on the Prison Talk forums Capital Punishment section- http://prisontalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=113 And no, I would not cast the first stone-- my husband and I have both made it clear to many who know us that if on the off chance either or both of us was murdered, we would NOT want the killer to face death, under any circumstances. The advocacy groups I support I believe would also back up my wishes, were that to happen. And I have been the victim of a violent crime (crimes, actually-- over a period of years)... and I am good terms with this person and have forgiven him.

In Texas on death row, if I'm not mistaken, there is no TV, only radio-- in FL I think there is, but it is black and white and no cable. The people who you'd find most in favor of keeping the TVs are the guards; makes their job a lot easier. It is definitely no country club; many inmates basically go insane. Here is a summary of conditions in a supermax; no education or anything of the sort- http://www.spunk.org/texts/prison/sp001611.txt So life in prison under these conditions can be a very severe punishment. Some inmates prefer death.

There are many cases of probable innocence, but the most poignant I can think of offhand is Cameron Todd Willingham in Texas. Because of a flawed investigation, he was executed for a fire that killed his own children which looks now like it was almost definitely an accident. His case and some others are summarized here- http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?&did=2238 Even one is too many. On hdnet's site, you can watch Dan Rather Reports investigation, Did Texas Execute Innocent Men? which highlights a couple of cases- http://www.hd.net/drr229.html In FL, there is at least one man, James Duckett (a former cop with no prior record) who looks to be innocent of the crime he was convicted of- http://www.prisonpotpourri.com/DUCKETT/The...Death%20Row.htm

This post has been edited by Paka: Nov 28 2007, 02:48 AM
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Dawn
post Nov 28 2007, 07:46 AM
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QUOTE
Do you really think we shouldn't have capital punishment because there is a chance that we might execute an innocent person?


My answer is an absolute yes. Even putting an innocent person in jail is bad enough, let alone killing them.

And honestly, Paka should be around here more, for sure. I totally agree that most of the time death penalties might be scarily biased.


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Fox
post Nov 28 2007, 03:32 PM
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I don't think it's at all alright to accept that you may be murdering innocent people "for the greater good". Especially when the statistics arn't exactly conclusive that the death penalty is a strong deterrent.

And JudasOne, even the death penalty is gross injustice. Does killing someone who deserved it "balance out" killing someone or many people who didn't? Who were the murderer's victims? Are the families who have lost children going to see the guy fry and then go "Right, justice was served now we can get on with our lives like nothing ever happened"?

May as well be merciful and be better for it. I'd rather keep these guys out of society and be unarguably the moral superior than risk innocent lives to kill them and not really accomplish anything extra.


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the x reaper
post Nov 28 2007, 05:15 PM
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well anyway,you could use them as 'test subjects'


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Resurrection
post Nov 28 2007, 08:16 PM
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QUOTE(the x reaper @ Nov 28 2007, 12:15 PM) *

well anyway,you could use them as 'test subjects'

That could possibly be even less humane.


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Fox
post Nov 28 2007, 10:40 PM
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I must admit its an intriguing argument...

Which should have more rights, innocent lab rats or serial killers?


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the x reaper
post Nov 29 2007, 04:15 PM
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QUOTE(Fox @ Nov 28 2007, 10:40 PM) *

I must admit its an intriguing argument...

Which should have more rights, innocent lab rats or serial killers?

the lab rats,using humans is much more...accurate...


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sephirothfearsme
post Dec 2 2007, 10:14 AM
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I fall into the category of I don't really know. I don't know how I would feel if it was someone I loved being executed or if it was someone I loved that was murdered. We can all say what we would do, but when the time comes do you really know what you would do? I will say this though, if executions are going to be done they should not let them sit in prison for 10 years before they do it. As for the deterant factor, in the Middle East if you steal something they cut off your hand publicly I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, and they have gold just sitting on the streets. Get my point?


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the x reaper
post Dec 2 2007, 10:40 AM
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QUOTE(sephirothfearsme @ Dec 2 2007, 10:14 AM) *

I fall into the category of I don't really know. I don't know how I would feel if it was someone I loved being executed or if it was someone I loved that was murdered. We can all say what we would do, but when the time comes do you really know what you would do? I will say this though, if executions are going to be done they should not let them sit in prison for 10 years before they do it. As for the deterant factor, in the Middle East if you steal something they cut off your hand publicly I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, and they have gold just sitting on the streets. Get my point?

in a way,but i think every bad action should have a painful consequence or death,i was looking at a picture lately and a around 5 year old boy had his arm crushed under a heavy van for stealing bread,heres the pictures/description link:
look at this rat


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AkamaruFoxHound
post Dec 3 2007, 02:07 AM
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QUOTE(the x reaper @ Nov 24 2007, 07:48 AM) *

do you think we should have more executions?there was but it was stopped due to the amount of people who were executed but this time once the person is 100% convicted of a crime then we should execute them


I think yer right Executions are all right, siriusly, look at over crowdin' in prisons, Look at that pathetic waste of life Charles Manson he's a takin' space where someone else could be, I mean x reaper is right, sirius felons that were completely convicted years ago should just be givin' the injection, the good 'ol chair, or if yer in Idaho, the firin' squad.


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Tidus1
post Dec 3 2007, 10:08 AM
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i think that executions are good to have if the person being executed has done a really bad crime like murdering someone innocent


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