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> Constant Expansion, the universe isn't the same everyday
AkamaruFoxHound
post Dec 16 2007, 04:40 AM
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Every day the Universe is bigger then the day before, since from various theories the universe expands at the rate of the speed of light, as stated once it expands faster than the speed of light, though it is unsure, just like the original idea that the universe doesn't crush under it's own weight, the expansion leaves the univeres bigger than the day before, galaxies that we see through the eye of the hubble are slowly distancing themselves away from us Just like M31. It is basically appied through Einstein's General Theory of Relativity, the concept of the realtionship of Space, Time, Gravity, and Matter.

http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Cyberia/Cosmos/ExpandUni.html

This post has been edited by AkamaruFoxHound: Dec 16 2007, 04:40 AM


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JudasOne
post Dec 16 2007, 07:12 AM
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So what's the debate?
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BohemianAndy
post Dec 16 2007, 11:12 AM
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QUOTE(AkamaruFoxHound @ Dec 16 2007, 01:40 PM) *

since from various theories the universe expands at the rate of the speed of light, as stated once it expands faster than the speed of light, though it is unsure, just like the original idea that the universe doesn't crush under it's own weight


Huh? huh.gif

QUOTE(JudasOne @ Dec 16 2007, 04:12 PM) *

So what's the debate?


Agreed. I don't know how to progress this.


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steiner
post Dec 16 2007, 01:31 PM
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Yeah, whats the debate?


I think he's talking about the possible futures of the Universe:

http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2004/dark...re_universe.jpg

Evidence suggests that the Big Crunch wont happen. It inconclusively points towards the Universe accelerating in terms of its size increments or something like that, as far as I know.


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AkamaruFoxHound
post Dec 16 2007, 10:13 PM
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QUOTE(steiner @ Dec 16 2007, 06:31 AM) *

Yeah, whats the debate?


I think he's talking about the possible futures of the Universe:

http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2004/dark...re_universe.jpg

Evidence suggests that the Big Crunch wont happen. It inconclusively points towards the Universe accelerating in terms of its size increments or something like that, as far as I know.


BINGO! And Steiner's got it right, basically what I'm talkin' about is various ways that our iniverse will hold, from the beginning to the end, there are quite a few theories on how it will end, though it is, of course unknown. The Big Crunch is the one that is most stated, but there are other various theories, such as the Universe collapsing on it's own weight.

here's another
http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101010625/story.html


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Tidus1
post Dec 18 2007, 11:55 AM
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so, what you're saying is that because the universe is growing as a tremendous rate then one day it will cave in and kill all life forms that exist.


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AkamaruFoxHound
post Dec 18 2007, 01:58 PM
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QUOTE(Tidus1 @ Dec 18 2007, 04:55 AM) *

so, what you're saying is that because the universe is growing as a tremendous rate then one day it will cave in and kill all life forms that exist.


not really there quite a few theories that go along with this, steiner broght up a pretty good one, the I usually state is the collapsing but check out the link steiner had

http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2004/dark...re_universe.jpg


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Tidus1
post Dec 18 2007, 02:13 PM
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does this mean that in the future the universe will get to a point where it cant grow any more


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AkamaruFoxHound
post Dec 19 2007, 12:45 AM
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QUOTE(Tidus1 @ Dec 18 2007, 07:13 AM) *

does this mean that in the future the universe will get to a point where it cant grow any more


not exactly, there is such a thing where it just continusly grow, but as they say, it has to come to an end, but these are just theories, they're not comfirmed...well not until it all happens.


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Stealth
post Dec 20 2007, 06:06 AM
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One day the universe will dim itself out of existence. With the current theory of Dark Energy, it pushes the universe into an accelerating state. It'll keep expanding at an accelerated speed until everything is spread out completely. By then, the universe will run out of fuel to keep any star-galaxy-star cycles going, and it'll just dim.

But don't worry, we'll all be long dead before that ever happens.


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steiner
post Dec 20 2007, 04:19 PM
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I agree..cept
QUOTE
It'll keep expanding at an accelerated speed until everything is spread out completely.

What do you mean by that?

Wouldnt it keep expanding at the speed of light continuously? Unless if there is a big rip or something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_fate_of_the_universe

I flicked through that. But I dont know much about General Relativity or Quantum Mechanics, so there's no way to tell whether one theory is more plausible than another apart from what I've heard.


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rainbowbrat
post Dec 20 2007, 07:09 PM
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QUOTE(Stealth @ Dec 19 2007, 10:06 PM) *

One day the universe will dim itself out of existence. With the current theory of Dark Energy, it pushes the universe into an accelerating state. It'll keep expanding at an accelerated speed until everything is spread out completely. By then, the universe will run out of fuel to keep any star-galaxy-star cycles going, and it'll just dim.

But don't worry, we'll all be long dead before that ever happens.


I guess it has to do with the physics and other things steiner referred too, but I do not see how the universe can just "run out of fuel to keep any star-galaxy-star cycles going, and it'll just dim."

Could you elaborate more? I have a feeling google won't help too much on this tongue.gif


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AkamaruFoxHound
post Dec 20 2007, 07:19 PM
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QUOTE(rainbowbrat @ Dec 20 2007, 12:09 PM) *

QUOTE(Stealth @ Dec 19 2007, 10:06 PM) *

One day the universe will dim itself out of existence. With the current theory of Dark Energy, it pushes the universe into an accelerating state. It'll keep expanding at an accelerated speed until everything is spread out completely. By then, the universe will run out of fuel to keep any star-galaxy-star cycles going, and it'll just dim.

But don't worry, we'll all be long dead before that ever happens.


I guess it has to do with the physics and other things steiner referred too, but I do not see how the universe can just "run out of fuel to keep any star-galaxy-star cycles going, and it'll just dim."

Could you elaborate more? I have a feeling google won't help too much on this tongue.gif


the theory of dark matter with the quantum equation, basically it will just keep accelerating until well, it remains unsure, but the various theories, but dark matter is basically what is found in many areas of the universe. Though what is thought about the crunch of the collapse is the gravitational field that surrounds massive objects like our sun or our planet, dark matter is almost like a structural part.


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rainbowbrat
post Dec 20 2007, 07:28 PM
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blink.gif

OK, I dunno if it is me, but that made NO sense at all .....I mean...II understand the dark matter being a structual part of the universe, but the rest isn't sinking in....

As far as the dark matter being a structual piece...that's a duh tongue.gif

Everything in the universe is a piece of the structure....you would think it to be logically anyway.


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steiner
post Dec 20 2007, 08:11 PM
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QUOTE
I guess it has to do with the physics and other things steiner referred too, but I do not see how the universe can just "run out of fuel to keep any star-galaxy-star cycles going, and it'll just dim.

Well, if you examine the life cycle of a star, eventually it runs out of hydrogen and stops doing nuclear fusion to produce Helium and heat energy. It cools down and becomes a neutron star (big stars) or a black dwarf (small stars). It can also become a black hole, but forget about that. If its a big star there's a supernova and another, smaller star can be formed from the debris of the supernova (eg. Our sun), but eventually all the stars will run out of fuel and everything will dim.

But then how did they get the energy in the first place? You might ask. That was due to the gravitational attraction between masses which pulled em together and bassically created heat. That heat became intense enough to allow for nuclear fusion. Nuclear fusion produced light.

But this wont happen in the future because most of the bits of matter have joined together already due to gravity.

I think thats what he means anyway. But my brain is kind of dead atm.


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rainbowbrat
post Dec 20 2007, 08:13 PM
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QUOTE(steiner @ Dec 20 2007, 12:11 PM) *

QUOTE
I guess it has to do with the physics and other things steiner referred too, but I do not see how the universe can just "run out of fuel to keep any star-galaxy-star cycles going, and it'll just dim.

Well, if you examine the life cycle of a star, eventually it runs out of hydrogen and stops doing nuclear fusion to produce Helium and heat energy. It cools down and becomes a neutron star (big stars) or a black dwarf (small stars). It can also become a black hole, but forget about that. If its a big star there's a supernova and another, smaller star can be formed from the debris of the supernova (eg. Our sun), but eventually all the stars will run out of fuel and everything will dim.

But then how did they get the energy in the first place? You might ask. That was due to the gravitational attraction between masses which pulled em together and bassically created heat.

But this wont happen in the future because most of the bits of matter have joined together already due to gravity.

I think thats what he means anyway. But my brain is kind of dead atm.


Well that make a hell of a lot more sense laugh.gif

But for the whole universe to run out...I just do not see it...there are too many stars ect that can reproduce and keep it alive....


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steiner
post Dec 20 2007, 08:20 PM
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^Hehe...stars can't really reproduce I don't think. And since the Universe is accelerating apart (although that could well be wrong!), they can't attract to other masses and heat up further. When small stars die, they just die. Only when big stars die do you get the chance of new stars. But the new stars are smaller than the old ones.

So, if you accept that the Universe is accelerating and getting bigger, then all the stars will eventually die out.


Also, even if the heat and light levels stayed the same with the amount of stars staying the same, the heat and light densities would still decrease.


But if the Universe is getting smaller, then the heat and light and amount of stars would increase since gravity would make them all collide and bang.


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rainbowbrat
post Dec 20 2007, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE
Only when big stars die do you get the chance of new stars.


That's what I meant by reproducing!!

I still doubt the universe would die out though...there are too many galaxies and planets and stars being discovered or popping up everywhere...

But that 's just my opinion tongue.gif


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steiner
post Dec 20 2007, 08:41 PM
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QUOTE(rainbowbrat @ Dec 20 2007, 08:34 PM) *

QUOTE
Only when big stars die do you get the chance of new stars.


That's what I meant by reproducing!!

I still doubt the universe would die out though...there are too many galaxies and planets and stars being discovered or popping up everywhere...

But that 's just my opinion tongue.gif

^Yeah, but the stars formed are always smaller than the ones that blew up. So eventually there will not be enough matter to form stars and it will all go black. Only of course, if the Universe is expanding.

I know there are billions of stars, but if its true that the amount of stars dying by mass exceeds the amount of stars being formed, then they will all die out, eventually.

But its a big if.




IF


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rainbowbrat
post Dec 20 2007, 08:59 PM
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LOL

I can see that IF theory....just seems like a very......far out...theory tongue.gif


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