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> Supernatural, different realms/levels of earth
Adrammalech
post Jan 4 2008, 07:03 PM
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you got a point there, even thought even with evidence or not, you dont know if she did allucinate or not


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Fox
post Jan 4 2008, 07:05 PM
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Well if there was evidence that she hallucinated it would be alot more credible. Likewise if there was evidence she did not would make THAT point more credible. A study of brainwaves at the time could show nay abnormal brain activity. Obviously in this case there is none but in other situations something like that may be possible.


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rainbowbrat
post Jan 4 2008, 07:08 PM
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QUOTE
^How can you prove that fairies were never real or alive?

Why couldnt fairies exist in another dimension?


Because they are mythological creatures...BUT, if they do exist in another realm, then maybe it is possible.

QUOTE
Why should the fact that your grandad has existed increase the reliability of what your grandmother saw?


Because...he was alive, he was real. BUT....

You are right...It may not have really been him, maybe it was what her mind showed her to comfort her when she was dying.

Maybe a large amount of DMT was released into her head creating the hallucinations.

Maybe when she was dying...the brain was working ovetime and it opened up more of her brain, and she saw things that were there, but it's something we can't see.

QUOTE
How do you know your grandmother wasn't hallucinating? (did you see him as well?)


She very well could have been...and no I didn't see him, but that doesn't mean it was a halucination...it could just be that he didn't want me to see him... unknw.gif

QUOTE
Isnt the fact that your grandfather has already died evidence against him having actually appeared? Why should it be evidence for?


umm...because he did die? laugh.gif

Like I said...it may not have been real, it was just an example of someone showing themselves to others, unlike god.

QUOTE
What about when people hallucinate and see Jesus telling them to do certain things? Why is that less reliable?


I still think that it may just be a being, or maybe someone who lived long ago...and that is who people see because that is what has been enforced and engraved in their heads. "When you die, you will see jesus."

Most people who claim to have seen jesus have had near death experiences.


QUOTE
See the problems you have. I recognise that some of those arguments are flawed, but a lot of them aren't.


Yes, I see, and I understand....BUT...you can't argue with EVP's and other evidences that have been documented...(I will get some info for you as well)






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Adrammalech
post Jan 4 2008, 07:09 PM
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yes but im talking abstractly not concretly, everything is a mystery credible or not


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Fox
post Jan 4 2008, 07:10 PM
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Just to clarif - what is an EVP? Is that when peopl elevae thir bodies?


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rainbowbrat
post Jan 4 2008, 07:12 PM
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QUOTE(Fox @ Jan 4 2008, 11:10 AM) *

Just to clarif - what is an EVP? Is that when peopl elevae thir bodies?


LOL
No

EVP~ Electronic Voice Phenomena

It picks up sounds unable to be heard by the human ear alone


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Adrammalech
post Jan 4 2008, 07:13 PM
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and what does EVP consist in exactly?


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rainbowbrat
post Jan 4 2008, 07:14 PM
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QUOTE(Adrammalech @ Jan 4 2008, 11:13 AM) *

and what does EVP consist in exactly?


What? I don't understand the question...sorry


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Adrammalech
post Jan 4 2008, 07:16 PM
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What is EVP exactly?


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rainbowbrat
post Jan 4 2008, 07:18 PM
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QUOTE(rainbowbrat @ Jan 4 2008, 11:12 AM) *

QUOTE(Fox @ Jan 4 2008, 11:10 AM) *

Just to clarif - what is an EVP? Is that when peopl elevae thir bodies?


LOL
No

EVP~ Electronic Voice Phenomena

It picks up sounds unable to be heard by the human ear alone


I answered that before your previous post tongue.gif


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Dawn
post Jan 4 2008, 07:18 PM
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I think EVP may be also called 'psychophonies', that is, strange voices recorded in places apparently empty


As for the whole subject, I am, like steiner, quite skeptical about it, mostly because I have never encountered such a situation but I won't deny that it is really intriguing and the fact that it is a matter studied and discussed for such a long time makes one think


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Adrammalech
post Jan 4 2008, 07:23 PM
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well you most certainly edited it


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rainbowbrat
post Jan 4 2008, 07:42 PM
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oh yeah...cause I forgot to add what it was...lol
sorry tongue.gif


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steiner
post Jan 4 2008, 07:42 PM
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Yeah, I'd like to see some hard evidence in the form of reliable links.


I wonder though, if there were hard evidence, wouldnt scientists be trying to work out what caused the phenomena? Yet Ive never heard of it before.


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rainbowbrat
post Jan 4 2008, 07:45 PM
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QUOTE(steiner @ Jan 4 2008, 11:42 AM) *

Yeah, I'd like to see some hard evidence in the form of reliable links.


I wonder though, if there were hard evidence, wouldnt scientists be trying to work out what caused the phenomena? Yet Ive never heard of it before.


They do and they are...I will get you some links! Just gimmie a few, I am still working tongue.gif

You could check wiki BTW tongue.gif


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Adrammalech
post Jan 4 2008, 07:48 PM
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i have seen, pages with evidence even thought some are fake for what i ave seen


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rainbowbrat
post Jan 4 2008, 08:13 PM
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Here's one link for you steiner:
It is a piece for aguements for and against.

THE SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF SURVIVAL AFTER DEATH

QUOTE
"I completely agree with Michael Roll's arguments about the reality of paranormal phenomena and the existence of a normally unseen world... Quantum Physics: the presence of a wave nature in subatomic particles. The vital difference between a wave and a solid particle is the wave properties of superposition and modulation. Put simply, these properties allow waves of different frequencies to occupy the same space without direct interaction. Therefore it is quite possible for parallel universes to exist separated by a difference in some fundamental wave characteristic. This theory springs directly from wave mechanics which unfortunately was not available to the Victorian researchers when the greatest breakthroughs with mediumship were made."


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Resurrection
post Jan 4 2008, 10:48 PM
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Regarding those hallucinations, EVP's, etc...

We don't perceive things as they are, we perceive things as they appear to us. How do we really know that the sky is blue? It LOOKS blue, but is it really blue? We have all thought one thing and later changed our mind and thought something else. Keeping this in mind, how can we really be sure of the simplest things in life? The answer is that we can't...maybe we'll never know the true nature of things.


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steiner
post Jan 4 2008, 11:10 PM
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QUOTE(rainbowbrat @ Jan 4 2008, 08:13 PM) *

Here's one link for you steiner:
It is a piece for aguements for and against.

THE SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF SURVIVAL AFTER DEATH

QUOTE
"I completely agree with Michael Roll's arguments about the reality of paranormal phenomena and the existence of a normally unseen world... Quantum Physics: the presence of a wave nature in subatomic particles. The vital difference between a wave and a solid particle is the wave properties of superposition and modulation. Put simply, these properties allow waves of different frequencies to occupy the same space without direct interaction. Therefore it is quite possible for parallel universes to exist separated by a difference in some fundamental wave characteristic. This theory springs directly from wave mechanics which unfortunately was not available to the Victorian researchers when the greatest breakthroughs with mediumship were made."


Thats only one site, but thanks for finding it anyway. Im still skeptical though because that same website is arguing that physics proves the existence of the soul, which Im pretty sure is a load of crap.


QUOTE
We don't perceive things as they are, we perceive things as they appear to us. How do we really know that the sky is blue? It LOOKS blue, but is it really blue? We have all thought one thing and later changed our mind and thought something else. Keeping this in mind, how can we really be sure of the simplest things in life? The answer is that we can't...maybe we'll never know the true nature of things.

The reason why the sky looks blue is actually very complex. However, what do you mean by 'is it really blue'? The electromagnetic waves given off just happen to be at the frequency that causes our eyes to percieve it as blue.

But your general point is true. You can never be 100% sure about anything. For example, statues could, theoretically, move by themselves, if all the atoms happened by ridiculously low chance to move in the same direction.

Another thing you can't even be certain about are how accurate are your senses. Our senses are fallible, and they can be even more fallible on certain occasions than on others as Resurrection was saying. Thats why repeatability is essential for something to be recognised as hard science.

On another point, how can I be sure for example that what I percieve as blue is the same as what you percieve as blue? Maybe in the future we will be able to, by examining brain states, but it can never be 100% sure. At the end of the day, we just have to make do with what is the likeliest probability.


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rainbowbrat
post Jan 4 2008, 11:35 PM
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it's only one site because all my links are on my comp at home, and it is not hooked up yet....but yeah, I even warned you it was a back and forth info site tongue.gif

But what i quoted from that site I found really inciteful...I don't remember reading that on the other sites.


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