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> Women's Bone Marrow Into Sperm
BohemianAndy
post Feb 3 2008, 03:30 PM
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1965

British scientists have the knowledge to create sperm from the bone marrow of women, but it is still at least a decade away. The stem cells in the bone marrow are "multi-potent", meaning that it can transform into some cells of the body, but not all. The implications for this discovery are that problems with infertility can be treated and overcome.

However, there are of course a number of ethical concerns here too. The need for a male to provide sperm is diminished, there is an increased risk of genetic abnormality, and also - "Couples who have children from artificial sperm created from women would be able to have girls only. This is because the female sperm would lack the Y-chromosome needed for boys."

Comments etc?


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steiner
post Feb 3 2008, 04:04 PM
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^Interesting. That could lead to gays having children.

Shocking stuff.


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Fox
post Feb 3 2008, 06:42 PM
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I don't think this is gonna wipe out the male part of our race! I think it'll just be used as a fertillity treatment when others fail which seems perfectly fine to me. I mea if every woman in the world did it just to avoid having sex with guys then there might be a problem but somehow I'm skeptical about our doom smile.gif


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steiner
post Feb 3 2008, 07:07 PM
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^It's the Daily Mail. You can't expect much intelligence from them. wink.gif


EDIT: I mean, the Daily Mail is the closest thing Britain has to Fox.


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Fox
post Feb 3 2008, 08:39 PM
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At first I took that as an insult before I realized what you were referring to! XD


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steiner
post Feb 3 2008, 10:43 PM
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^Lol. I thought of that after I posted but I decided not to edit.

Anyway, Fox was meant to be a pun - meaning you as well as the news.


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BohemianAndy
post Feb 4 2008, 02:58 AM
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^ Lol, a bit harsh? xD

It would be interesting to see Resurrection's opinion on this research discovery.


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joesmith123
post Feb 4 2008, 04:28 AM
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Can they use guy's bone marrow too? Or is it just women for some reason?


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Dawn
post Feb 4 2008, 07:31 AM
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I was wondering the same thing.

Anyway, I see this a good thing if fertility problems may arise. As if, as a male, I feel threatened, well I would worry about other things in (SOME, NOT ALL) women's behaviour these days than this.


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Resurrection
post Feb 4 2008, 08:00 PM
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QUOTE(BohemianAndy @ Feb 3 2008, 10:30 AM) *

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1965

British scientists have the knowledge to create sperm from the bone marrow of women, but it is still at least a decade away. The stem cells in the bone marrow are "multi-potent", meaning that it can transform into some cells of the body, but not all. The implications for this discovery are that problems with infertility can be treated and overcome.

However, there are of course a number of ethical concerns here too. The need for a male to provide sperm is diminished, there is an increased risk of genetic abnormality, and also - "Couples who have children from artificial sperm created from women would be able to have girls only. This is because the female sperm would lack the Y-chromosome needed for boys."

Comments etc?

What will they come up with next? Maybe they'll find a way to force a female elephant and a male horse to have sex and the elephant will give birth to a human!

On a serious note:

I'm starting to think that biologists are going a little to far with their research. I just don't think that life was meant to be created from bone-marrow sperm, but who knows. The "genetic abnormalities" and incapability of such a reproductive method to produce males shows how it is unnatural. I, personally, would prefer to be conceived the normal way.


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Fox
post Feb 4 2008, 08:49 PM
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I have a question!

Does coffee bleed?

Sorry my mate was interjecting I had to post it. Back on a serious note:

Why is "natural" so much better than "unnatural"?

And define "natural". To say we are doing unnatural things is to suggest we are not part of nature. But...we are. Whatever we do is still within the laws of nature. Your beef, I think, is not that it is "unnatural" but that it is unethical. Why so?


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Resurrection
post Feb 5 2008, 02:04 AM
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QUOTE(Fox @ Feb 4 2008, 03:49 PM) *

Why is "natural" so much better than "unnatural"?

And define "natural". To say we are doing unnatural things is to suggest we are not part of nature. But...we are. Whatever we do is still within the laws of nature. Your beef, I think, is not that it is "unnatural" but that it is unethical. Why so?

Of course we cannot defy the laws of nature, but we didn't evolve through bone-marrow sperm. Maybe it was that way for a reason, you know? Maybe if bone-marrow sperm was a good way to reproduce, then mammals, through natural selection, would have developed a practical way to reproduce with this mechanism. But they didn't. In that sense it is unnatural. Let's not waste time talking semantics.

(Wow, I actually built science into my argument!!!)

Now, is it unethical? Possibly. I believe it best to leave conception exclusively to vaginal sex.


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Fox
post Feb 5 2008, 12:40 PM
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I don't think this is an argument about semantics. To say it is unnatural and "we didn't evolve that way for a reason" is to claim that we have stopped evolving. By that argument we should refuse all medicine, eat naught that involves cooking and say a big no to the internet. We have survived only because of our evolved ability to adapt and be ingenuitive.

Now, this allows those who would not produce offspring any other way to HAVE offspring. Seems like a pretty good evolutionary incentive to me.

As for the ethics... conception by vaginal sex? Let's just focus on married couples with infertile husbands. Should they not get this treatment? Or IVF? To say it is unethical for conception to happen in any way other than vaginal sex it is to say that it is unethical to let certain unlucky people have children.


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rainbowbrat
post Feb 5 2008, 04:47 PM
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I think it is an interesting concept...I dunno how effective it would be though because it was that only females would be born, then this world is gonna get a lot bitchier xD

But it is interesting to see what they can do...we should follow up in a DECADE when they have ACTUALLY experimented with something...as of right now, it is just the "knowledge"


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Adrammalech
post Feb 5 2008, 09:41 PM
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Experiments like this are destined to utter failure in human society and genetics, Men do not fear, Nature is wiser than the humans........going against the rules of Reproduction and making sex a total act of pleasure man what are these men thinking, they are completely destroying the concept of Procreation


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Resurrection
post Feb 5 2008, 10:09 PM
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QUOTE(Fox @ Feb 5 2008, 07:40 AM) *

As for the ethics... conception by vaginal sex? Let's just focus on married couples with infertile husbands. Should they not get this treatment? Or IVF? To say it is unethical for conception to happen in any way other than vaginal sex it is to say that it is unethical to let certain unlucky people have children.

I have no reason to say that it is unethical that will be convincing to you. I'll just say that I'm no cafeteria Catholic (i.e. pick and choose which teachings you like), and I will profess whatever the Church teaches whether I understand it or not because of the divine authority that I believe she has.

Adoption is always an appropriate option for those certain unlucky people.


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Fox
post Feb 5 2008, 11:08 PM
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Well if that's what you believe. Out of curiosity could you provide me with a biblical reference saying additional means of conception are wrong? I understand where you get the "homosexuality is immoral" stuff from but I don't recall seeing anything in reference to this sort of issue.


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Resurrection
post Feb 6 2008, 01:05 AM
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QUOTE(Fox @ Feb 5 2008, 06:08 PM) *

Well if that's what you believe. Out of curiosity could you provide me with a biblical reference saying additional means of conception are wrong? I understand where you get the "homosexuality is immoral" stuff from but I don't recall seeing anything in reference to this sort of issue.

That's cause it's not in there (as far as I know). Unlike "sola scriptura" Christians, we don't believe that the Bible is the sole source of God's revelation to man. There is a controversial passage about contraception (Genesis 38:6-10) but nothing explicitly about various means of conception. The same goes for masturbation.


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Fox
post Feb 6 2008, 01:25 AM
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OK. I can understand that, so what are the other sources? Or is this a case of the bible is taken as a basis and then certain men like the pope decide what is ethical and what is not for the modern day?

Don't worry I'm not going to get into a debate and start trying to rip to shreds whatever you say, as I often do, but I am interested. I would like to understand where you get your ideals from and how they are formed if not solely from the bible.


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Resurrection
post Feb 6 2008, 02:41 AM
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QUOTE(Fox @ Feb 5 2008, 08:25 PM) *

OK. I can understand that, so what are the other sources? Or is this a case of the bible is taken as a basis and then certain men like the pope decide what is ethical and what is not for the modern day?

The Bible and Apostolic Tradition (i.e. what the apostles taught) is taken as a basis for what the Church teaches. We believe that she is protected from teaching false doctrine by the Holy Spirit, so basically whenever the Church makes a doctrinal declaration Catholics consider it infallible. This is usually done through Councils like Vatican II. But sometimes, like you mentioned, the Pope alone will make a doctrinal declaration as the successor of St. Peter (the first Pope) which is considered infallible as well. This, however, is rare. It hasn't happened since 1950.

By the by, I do agree with your statement regarding mankind's ability to adapt and ingenuity. I just think that the genetic abnormalities that could result from this and the impossibility of producing male children raise a red flag for the use of bone-marrow sperm.


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