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> Playing FFVII through for the first time. *SPOILERS*, Questions abound!
Delusive
post May 11 2008, 03:31 AM
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I'm just at the start, really. I got to the part where I met Tifa and the weapons guy has some stuff for me at the top of the tower o' shops.

Anyway, I just wanted to get some stuff straight first:

(1) How is Midgar structured, and what is around the world of Midgar (what is the name of Tifa and Cloud's town where they met at the well, what exactly is Shinra - place and guy?)

(2) How does the world of magic work. What components make magic tick? I wanted to have a handle on terms like materia, and the like. What is the Planet's life force called?

(3) When you're in the beginning of the game - Barret, Jesse, Wedge, and Biggs seem to not know who you are, except that you're a soldier from SOLDIER and you're supposedly really powerful. Then when you get to the headquarters (with Tifa and that little girl), you apparently figure out that you all were childhood friends. That doesn't make sense. Why did the group in the beginning seem to not know who you were if you were friends before? Why did Jesse, Wedge, and Biggs suddenly leave after I acquired Tifa and who is that little girl's parents (forgot her name, I think Barret may be one of them but I'm not entirely sure besides the fact that she calls him papa so...who is the mother?)?

Just a few questions so I can have a bit of an understanding going through the early parts of the game.

I like to get into ze details! biggrin.gif


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steiner
post May 11 2008, 08:14 AM
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Wow...Ive forgotten so much. Lets see what I can do...

QUOTE
(1) How is Midgar structured, and what is around the world of Midgar (what is the name of Tifa and Cloud's town where they met at the well, what exactly is Shinra - place and guy?)

Midgar is divided into sectors, with upper layers for the rich bitches and lower layers for the dregs of society. Tifa and Cloud grew up in Nibelheim. Shinra is a company which has become super powerful because it uses Mako energy from the planet's life force to build loadsa stuff. President Shinra is da boss.

Oh, and outside Midgar is the rest of the world!

QUOTE
2) How does the world of magic work. What components make magic tick? I wanted to have a handle on terms like materia, and the like. What is the Planet's life force called?


Magic comes from the materia. The materia gives people special powers and abilities. The in game tutorials explain how to use it. The Planet's life force...I cant remember. Maybe it doesnt have a name. Mako energy is the energy gained from it.


QUOTE
(3) When you're in the beginning of the game - Barret, Jesse, Wedge, and Biggs seem to not know who you are, except that you're a soldier from SOLDIER and you're supposedly really powerful. Then when you get to the headquarters (with Tifa and that little girl), you apparently figure out that you all were childhood friends. That doesn't make sense. Why did the group in the beginning seem to not know who you were if you were friends before? Why did Jesse, Wedge, and Biggs suddenly leave after I acquired Tifa and who is that little girl's parents (forgot her name, I think Barret may be one of them but I'm not entirely sure besides the fact that she calls him papa so...who is the mother?)?


Only Tifa and Cloud knew each other because they both grew up in Nibelheim. The rest of them didnt know Cloud, I think. The little girl is called Marlene. I wont tell you who her parents are because you'll find out in due course you over-curious monkey. tongue.gif


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Delusive
post May 11 2008, 05:11 PM
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Lol, thanks Steiner. That's not the first time I was called a monkey, either! biggrin.gif

Anyway, 'tis a really fun game. The storyline is pretty good as well, so far and I know it'll get better. Hopefully my opinion on Sephy will change as I learn more about him.


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fat_moogle
post May 11 2008, 06:03 PM
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FFVII is a great game, I started it again a few weeks (well, a month or so) ago. Keep us updated with your progress!


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steiner
post May 11 2008, 06:19 PM
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I might carry on with my replaying of the game during the holidays. I didnt get very far on my initial replay.

FFVII was awesome. But it is overrated IMO.


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fat_moogle
post May 11 2008, 06:24 PM
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^ I didn't get very far either. I spent ages training the characters I have to get their Level 3 limits.

EDIT: I agree, it is a little overrated. "A little" may be a bit of an understatement! Even so, it's still my favourite FF. Hopefully XIII will be something special, though.


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Delusive
post May 11 2008, 11:55 PM
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I'll definitely keep everyone updated. I'll change the title of this topic to "FFVII discussion" if people are going to start replaying it so it's not just focused on me if anyone wants.

Anyway, I think the main thing that's overrated in FFVII is Sephiroth and, to an extent, Cloud. That's what I see get the main praise in FFVII.

Me getting excited about FFXIII lead me to play through this game. I'm about to start it up right now, actually.

EDIT:

Just got done playing for the night and I got all the way to meeting Aeris (Aerith) after I pushed barrels into the Turks (the organization that looks for candidates for SOLDIER) that were after her (I missed the first one, so she had to fight that one) - One of the Turks (Reno?) called her The Ancient - what is up with that?!

Anyhoo, I saved at the nearest save point right after that - so I met Aeris and right before that blew up another Mako reactor, bested President Shinra's toy, and separated from Tifa and Barret.

Question though, have I fought SOLDIER yet? I met the Turks, and I think the guards that were with President Shinra were Shrina Police, not SOLDIER...


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fat_moogle
post May 12 2008, 01:29 PM
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You'll find out soon enough why Reno referred to her as "The Ancient". I'm not going to spoil anything here.

Hmm, I'm not sure about SOLDIER, though. I can't remember if you actually fight SOLDIER or not, I think it's just Shinra Guards.

QUOTE
I'll change the title of this topic to "FFVII discussion" if people are going to start replaying it so it's not just focused on me if anyone wants.

That would probably mean that a lot of spoilers would start getting posted in here by other people, maybe you should just keep it as it is? I don't want it ruining your experience! xD


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Delusive
post May 14 2008, 03:16 AM
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QUOTE(fat_moogle @ May 12 2008, 01:29 PM) *

You'll find out soon enough why Reno referred to her as "The Ancient". I'm not going to spoil anything here.


I think I'm about there.

QUOTE
Hmm, I'm not sure about SOLDIER, though. I can't remember if you actually fight SOLDIER or not, I think it's just Shinra Guards.


Yea, I think it's just been Shinra guards and Turks.

QUOTE

That would probably mean that a lot of spoilers would start getting posted in here by other people, maybe you should just keep it as it is? I don't want it ruining your experience! xD


True, I'll keep the title like it is for now.

Anyway, updated impressions.

I really love this game now. It's pretty awesome.

I just got past the part with Don Corneo (that was some pretty funny stuff) and got back to where Shinra is blowing up the pillar that is above Sector 7. I saved right before I went up the pillar to meet up with Barret but I ventured further just to see what would happen next - I cut off my PS2 right when you go to find out more about Ancients (I'll save that whole part for tomorrow, though I stupidly didn't save right before I went into Aeris' house).


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LoneWolf
post May 16 2008, 11:30 AM
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The first 5 hours of Final Fantasy 7 (while you're in Midgar) is the most fun I've had with any game. I get shivers just from thinking about playing it. The music, atmosphere, gameplay and graphics are perfect. It's just nostalgia that makes me think that though. ^^ I'm extremely critical of FF7 as well.


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(Phoenix)
post May 16 2008, 06:06 PM
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^Seriously? That's always been my least favourite part of the game
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Steff
post May 16 2008, 10:46 PM
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i love this game, i played it after i'd played iX VIII and X and X.2 and its the most fun for sure.
ofcourse it has its flaws but it still rules. infact i think the very fact it has flaws contribute to its greatness.
I love the begining Midgar bit, riding the trains, don corneo, walking aeris home, buyin the flower, I just loved Midgar so much, that i have to admit to feeling very sad when...well u know


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LoneWolf
post May 17 2008, 03:32 AM
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QUOTE((Phoenix) @ May 17 2008, 04:06 AM) *

^Seriously? That's always been my least favourite part of the game


Yeah, I think the storyline goes really downhill for a while after leaving Midgar. Until near the end of the first disc nothing very interesting happens. The group starts to follow Sephiroth but you're not even given an explanation why (you do eventually though).

How come the start was your least favourite part of the game?


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Delusive
post May 17 2008, 05:53 AM
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A little update:

I got into the Shinra building and am currently on the 64th or 65th floor, whichever one had the save point.

So apparently Aerith is an Acient who can "feel" the planet and who has mysterious powers. Like being able to tell when Elyrium's husband died.

And Barret is pretty funny - I got to the wire (to climb up it), and I *think* he said that the wire was a big light of hope and Cloud mentioned that, while that was a bad analogy, he was right.

EDIT:

Updated Updated Impressions:

Just finished my fight with Rufus (and I didn't realize that I really needed to equip offensive materia to Red XIII and Aeris so I had to fight those mecha-robots without them really helping at all) and I saved right before I (as Cloud) meet up with Tifa to escape.

Sephiroth annihilated everyone and then proceeded to kill the President of Shinra and let me escape? What gives?

Double Edit:

Got to the save point in the middle of the huge flashback and I have stopped there for now (taking a break) but I've found a minor complaint about the story, unless it's resolved later...

After you find President Shinra dead, learn that Rufus is taking the company in a new, more evil direction as the new President, and after he flees and you go to the city Northeast of Midgar, the game suddenly became all about finding Sephiroth like Shinra is suddenly obsolete or something...

That makes no sense. From what we've learned so far - Sephiroth is not totally evil (more and more evidence in that huge flashback, in fact it implies that Sephiroth is probably evil because of Shinra itself) yet we are going after him (after he just rescued us and killed the president of Shinra).

I know Cloud probably knows more about Sephy than the gamer is supposed to know at this point, but it kind of doesn't transition well from all about Shinra to all about Sephiroth in so short a time.

And what's with Jenova? Her headless body? Where's her head (was it in that glass chamber where the "monsters" were being produced? How exactly is Jenova Sephiroth's mother? What is Jenova? Basically, I just don't get anything about Jenova, at all.

Triple Edit:

Ok, I know a little bit more about Jenova. She's apparently an Ancient that was found in a 2000 year old stratum and Professor Gast initiated the Jenova Project which produced Sephiroth. Then Sephiroth, an apparent good guy, suddenly goes crazy after learning this and kills mostly everyone in the town of Nibelheim including Cloud's mother and Tifa's father. Now Sephiroth has taken it upon himself to bring the planet back to the Cetra and to ultimately rule the Planet.

Jenova's body, I still don't get that though. It was in the Mako reactor at Nibelheim, and Sephiroth looked at it (I don't think he took it) and then 5 years later, Cloud and crew find it in the Shinra building, headless, and then it's taken when Sephiroth attacks. Creepy stuff.

I don't get how Jenova is controlling anything since she's apparently dead. And Sephiroth's motivation is kind of laughable - he's good up until the point he learns that he's a created Ancient? And suddenly his loyalty lies with the Ancients? Of which he's really a fake one created by humans?


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(Phoenix)
post May 17 2008, 09:14 PM
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QUOTE(LoneWolf @ May 17 2008, 04:32 AM) *

Yeah, I think the storyline goes really downhill for a while after leaving Midgar. Until near the end of the first disc nothing very interesting happens. The group starts to follow Sephiroth but you're not even given an explanation why (you do eventually though).

How come the start was your least favourite part of the game?


I just found it to be kinda boring. I dunno why, I always dislike the start of RPG's though, I spose it's because I hate having low levels...and I prefer it when I have my whole party together and the story's in full swing so to speak

@Delusive: If you found out you weren't human, that you were actually created from the cells of an almost exticnt race, wouldn't that completely fuck up your mind? After he finds out he runs to the lab to research moreon what he is, and eventually he convinces himself that he's the last chance to complete Jenova's mission. Basicly he became twisted because he couldn't stand what he was.
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steiner
post May 17 2008, 11:23 PM
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^You should play FFIX. The beginning is amazing! biggrin.gif

PLAY IT PLAY IT PLAY IT

QUOTE
Sephiroth's motivation is kind of laughable - he's good up until the point he learns that he's a created Ancient? And suddenly his loyalty lies with the Ancients? Of which he's really a fake one created by humans?

You're slightly confused/wrong. But maybe you're supposed to be confused, since I think you find out what exactly happened to Sephiroth later on. But yeah, tis a little weird.


One problem is that some important scenes are missable. Which is really stupid.




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Delusive
post May 17 2008, 11:48 PM
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@Phoenix: I understand that. He finds out that he actually didn't really have a mother and that he was a created being by Shinra. He still seemed to look up to Professor Gast, though (even though Gast probably had a huge deal to do with it, I know he did, given what the game has told me).

The thing is, he suddenly destroys helpless civilians, whilst going to go see his "mother." He does the same thing to Tifa and Cloud what Shinra really did to him. I guess it's because he blames Cloud's ancestors for destroying the Cetra so he takes it out on all present humans given the fact that their ancestors can no longer be given any sort of revenge (besides extinction of the current human species).

@Steiner: That's another point, I'll wait till I play some more before I make any conclusive judgments about Sephiroth's motivation, but right now it seems like it wasn't given enough time (I can see what his motivation is so perhaps my "laughable" comment was a bit too harsh).

All in all, an awesome game. One of my favorite RPGs, I can tell you that. I still think it's stupid that we're suddenly on this "chase Sephiroth" mission without any mention of Shinra after Rufus' retreat.


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LoneWolf
post May 18 2008, 06:04 AM
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@Delusive- Yeah, that's the plot hole I mentioned earlier in the topic. They switch from trying to destroy Shinra to chasing Sephiroth with pratically no reason. It's explained later in the game why they did it, but it's still a bit of a plot hole. I'm impressed that you noticed it so quickly, it just passes over most people's heads.

QUOTE
One problem is that some important scenes are missable. Which is really stupid.


Yeah, that's my main problem with the presentation of the story. Some of the most crucial scenes to the backstory are optional.


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fat_moogle
post May 18 2008, 11:24 AM
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QUOTE(LoneWolf @ May 18 2008, 07:04 AM) *

They switch from trying to destroy Shinra to chasing Sephiroth with pratically no reason. It's explained later in the game why they did it, but it's still a bit of a plot hole. I'm impressed that you noticed it so quickly, it just passes over most people's heads.

I'm one of those people who's head it's passed over. I never noticed that until now laugh.gif

QUOTE(LoneWolf @ May 18 2008, 07:04 AM) *

Yeah, that's my main problem with the presentation of the story. Some of the most crucial scenes to the backstory are optional.

Yea, I missed some of the scenes so I just went to youtube! At least Crisis Core / Last Order fill some of the gaps.


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Delusive
post May 18 2008, 07:02 PM
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QUOTE(LoneWolf @ May 18 2008, 06:04 AM) *

@Delusive- Yeah, that's the plot hole I mentioned earlier in the topic. They switch from trying to destroy Shinra to chasing Sephiroth with pratically no reason. It's explained later in the game why they did it, but it's still a bit of a plot hole. I'm impressed that you noticed it so quickly, it just passes over most people's heads.


Yea, it's really stupid too, it had a really great story going and still does but I just don't like the fact that everyone (including Barret) trusts Cloud so much. In the first place, he wasn't there to simply "protect the planet" like Avalanche was intended for, he was there for his pay. Now that he learns Sephiroth is alive, he says that it's best for the planet if he's gone? Could that be perhaps revenge instead of a real reason to protect the planet? I still see Shinra as the main threat in this point of the game.

How does that relate to the transition from Shinra to Sephiroth? Basically, because Cloud wants it, it becomes so. That's the reason they are after Sephiroth instead of Shinra now from what the game has provided in terms of explanation.

QUOTE
QUOTE
One problem is that some important scenes are missable. Which is really stupid.


QUOTE
Yeah, that's my main problem with the presentation of the story. Some of the most crucial scenes to the backstory are optional.


That is completely and utterly stupid. I guess I'll have to make sure I don't miss 'em then.

Anyway, I have pondered long and hard about Sephiroth's motivation as a villain and I've come to accept it as a good motivation. I understand why Sephiroth did what he did, and it adds depth to his character as well. He's not utterly and totally evil like some people seem to perceive him as though (at least from what I know of him now).


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