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> Do you believe in a Heaven and Hell ?
steiner
post Feb 20 2008, 11:20 PM
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Its interesting. Im just reading a book which has a few chapters on hallucinations. It basically says how easy it is for people to hallucinate and gives you some examples on how to make yourself hallucinate. I didnt try it though because it didnt involve taking any drugs.


I think people can easily delude themselves. I remember when I was younger, swearing that there must have been a poltergeist or some such thing.

Also, bear in mind that what the brain creates as a picture of the world is not necesarily how the world actually is. The brain takes many shortcuts and makes many assumptions when processing your 'virtual reality'. It can be confused suprisingly easily.


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Resurrection
post Feb 21 2008, 02:33 AM
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I would not disagree with any of this, except "with nothing to back it up those claims are meaningless". Some things just can't be proven.

I, personally, have never "heard" God as clearly as some people claim that they have. Maybe I'm too skeptical. Because for a Christian I am very skeptical. If some of the examples of people "hearing" God are nothing but creative imaginations, maybe it is psychologically easier to produce such illusions when doubt is scarce. Just a thought.


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Fox
post Feb 21 2008, 01:01 PM
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QUOTE

I would not disagree with any of this, except "with nothing to back it up those claims are meaningless". Some things just can't be proven.


Not 100%, but nothing can. I disagree that any claim can have meaning without any tangible backup. I could claim the existence of leprechauns, and even though I have no evidence for it would you say that, as my claims can't be falsified, I have solid grounds for making that claim?

I doubt you would. I certainly wouldn't accept that line of thought as valid. Absence of evidence IS evidence of absence - if there is nothing backing up what you say, then what you say can be assumed inaccurate, ill-informed or meaningless.


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Resurrection
post Feb 21 2008, 10:16 PM
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QUOTE(Fox @ Feb 21 2008, 08:01 AM) *

QUOTE

I would not disagree with any of this, except "with nothing to back it up those claims are meaningless". Some things just can't be proven.


Not 100%, but nothing can. I disagree that any claim can have meaning without any tangible backup. I could claim the existence of leprechauns, and even though I have no evidence for it would you say that, as my claims can't be falsified, I have solid grounds for making that claim?

I doubt you would. I certainly wouldn't accept that line of thought as valid. Absence of evidence IS evidence of absence - if there is nothing backing up what you say, then what you say can be assumed inaccurate, ill-informed or meaningless.

I guess my point is that if something is true it is not meaningless. If you are on an airplane, and somebody shouts "I have a bomb" even though you don't see anywhere on his body where he could be hiding it, people will probably start freaking out. All of a sudden such a bold claim matters very much to people, and it does not differ by nature from claiming the existence of leprechauns.


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Fox
post Feb 22 2008, 01:34 AM
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^ OK, good point. I see where your coming from.

Let me put this a different way, without something tangible to back you up, saying "these people calimed this" in any form of debate is a bad move. Let's go back to your bomb scare example. Claiming he has a bomb doesn't make it true. OK, some people take notice of him and maybe believe him, but lets say you were looking at the situation objectivly, from the outside.

The only reason you would have to suspect he had a bomb was his word. And now you're trying to peruade your friend that he does have a bomb.

"How do we know he has a bomb?"
"Well, he claims he does".

You see where I'm coming from? Maybe I was wrong to say claims are entirely meaningless as yes, people pay attention to them for whatever reason and what people decide to do on the basis of these calims can have very real consequences. But a claim in itself, when viewd objectivly, is not a proof and only the weakest form of evidence.


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Resurrection
post Feb 22 2008, 08:45 PM
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Sure, I agree. I was never trying to claim that words were good evidence, just that they aren't entirely meaningless.


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Tidus1
post Feb 25 2008, 01:46 PM
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i dont believ that there is a heaven and a hell but it is a good idea because it takes some of the fear of death away from people and gives them something to aim for


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Resurrection
post Feb 25 2008, 10:00 PM
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QUOTE(Tidus1 @ Feb 25 2008, 08:46 AM) *

i dont believ that there is a heaven and a hell but it is a good idea because it takes some of the fear of death away from people and gives them something to aim for

So is it better to have false hope, or to aim for something that actually exists?

Reminds me of a FFX quote...

"My father wanted to make Spira's sorrow go away...not just cover it up with lies." -Yuna


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Adrammalech
post Mar 26 2008, 01:28 AM
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QUOTE(Resurrection @ Feb 25 2008, 08:00 PM) *

QUOTE(Tidus1 @ Feb 25 2008, 08:46 AM) *

i dont believ that there is a heaven and a hell but it is a good idea because it takes some of the fear of death away from people and gives them something to aim for

So is it better to have false hope, or to aim for something that actually exists?

Reminds me of a FFX quote...

"My father wanted to make Spira's sorrow go away...not just cover it up with lies." -Yuna

Neither.....False hope is false and aiming to the existant, What is the existant?


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Resurrection
post Mar 26 2008, 01:56 AM
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I don't understand your objection. Why shouldn't we aim for what is true and shun what is false? And what do you mean by "What is existent?"? Everything that is true could be said to "exist".


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Fox
post Mar 26 2008, 12:01 PM
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Yeah Adrammalech, could you maybe translate that into a more understandable language perhaps? Binary, for example...


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Adrammalech
post Mar 26 2008, 09:27 PM
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I just think, that i dont exactly agree in thinking those two options in particular, i didnt exactly knew what you ment with it and i went with my crazy "think what i want" ego and writed that, but i really didnt ment to write an inunderstandable statement reflecting my choice, To shun the false or to believe the existant?, it actually depends, on the truth and the lie, thats why i ment neither, thats why i said, i lack expression but i am like that...


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Binibini
post Mar 31 2008, 05:02 PM
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Eh I don't know anymore to be honest. I definitely believe there are light and dark forces tho, so perhaps there is a heaven and hell, in which these forces reside? Who's to say really..


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AkamaruFoxHound
post Apr 14 2008, 01:46 PM
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I have a hard time with this, with christians trying to shove this stuff down my throat at school. in general No is the answer, but I do know of a decent hoax which makes me laugh.

LINK


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Resurrection
post Apr 15 2008, 01:14 AM
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How could Christians really believe that Hell is inside the earth? If it is there, I doubt it's a physical state.


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Fox
post Apr 15 2008, 12:30 PM
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^ Yeah because that would be ridiculous!


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Resurrection
post Apr 15 2008, 10:57 PM
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Sorry, that wasn't what I meant to say. Let me restate my second sentence:

If HEAVEN truly exists, I doubt it is a physical state.


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(Phoenix)
post May 4 2008, 05:32 PM
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I don't pay much thought to it.

I suppose I'd say I don't beleive in it, but I'm open to any veiws others may have on not just heaven/hell but religioun in general.
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