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> Do you believe in a Heaven and Hell ?
Cheeky25
post Nov 1 2006, 08:03 PM
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QUOTE(Xiitharn @ Oct 30 2006, 02:35 AM) *

My idea of Heaven..

There's this book written by a famous psychic (I think her name is Sylvia Browne, I could be WAY off) and the title is something like Contacting Your Spirit Guide..Spirit guides are like..guardian angels in a sense but they're with you all the time and they help plan out your life with a "chart" of some sort.

Theres a description of what spirit guides do in their "spare" time..it's like..time doesn't exist there and her spirit guide (the authors) told her that he once sat down and listened to a lecture by Abraham Lincoln about how Bush is throwing the US in the toilet.

So I think Heaven is like..seeing everyone that has ever existed and you can meet them and talk to them and like..just..be happy..rolling green hills and constant sunshine..just like..your picture of luxury. I also believe in seeing past pets; that is the one thing I do look forward to.

However, sometimes I also wonder like..this is it? This is our only chance to ever exist? One life, and yet it seems so short when we're about to die..You think, God, I wish I did that..and you're scared to die because nobody knows what is on the other side..So I think I may believe in reincarnation.

I believe in God too. Just..I don't know where to place him when it comes to Heaven. For some reason at this moment I can just see him as a person and he walks around and talks to people in Heaven. In Heaven, he will be the most enrapturing individual you will have ever spoken to and he will eventually speak to everyone..I don't know.

It's a mixed thing for me I guess.


"I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again."

This is a quote by Achilles in the movie Troy. I liked the movie, and when I read your part about being scared that the end is near, this came to mind. I do believe that because our time is limited, and that everything we do has its risks, it makes it all the more rewarding.

If I was immortal, I would become very bored, very fast. Nothing would be new or exciting, because I had probably done it all before.


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Resurrection
post Nov 1 2006, 10:36 PM
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The Christian Heaven is not boring, if that's what you're saying.


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Adrammalech
post Nov 2 2006, 08:22 PM
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im christian but i do not believe nor in heaven nor in hell


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Fox
post Nov 2 2006, 08:29 PM
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QUOTE(Adrammalech @ Nov 2 2006, 08:22 PM) *

im christian but i do not believe nor in heaven nor in hell


Are you saying you don;t believe in GOD there as well? Or in Christianity? Cause if so...how are you christian again?!?!?


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Cheeky25
post Nov 4 2006, 02:48 AM
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QUOTE(Adrammalech @ Nov 2 2006, 08:22 PM) *

im christian but i do not believe nor in heaven nor in hell


No ur not, end of story. Sorry.

Christianity, since you obviously don't know, is a religion. It centers around a man named Jesus, born around 6 B.C. He died for our sins (moral offenses basically) so that we can go to heaven. Heaven is the Christian afterlife.

Hope that clears everything up for you. [/sarcasm]


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joesmith123
post Nov 4 2006, 12:28 PM
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QUOTE
im christian but i do not believe nor in heaven nor in hell


How are you a Christian then? Please explain it as I'm very interested in how someone could consider themselves a Christian and not believe in heaven or in hell.



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Resurrection
post Nov 7 2006, 09:53 PM
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Defining the word "Christian" is hard, but I do not believe that this person is truly Christian. I believe that you must believe in Heaven and hell


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Vuu Meista
post Nov 9 2006, 04:14 PM
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You are born, you grow up in a particular environment to beleive what others around you beleive.. all over the world people have Different beleifs... every religion debates that there is a good and evil.. So what makes YOU so special, YOUR religion you were born to beleive in so RIGHT?

Your religion is right, therefore everyone else on this earth is wrong?
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Fox
post Nov 9 2006, 11:00 PM
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Nothing. But those that believe will always adopt that attitue. You wouldn't be a very good devout Muslim if you though "I believe that Allah is the one true God! ....but maybe not."

Most religious people do not simply believe...they KNOW. When you believe in something strongly you are faced with two options: Be open-minded and allow your faith to be shaken, or stick to your convictions no matter what.

Personally I think they are both good attitudes to take.


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Resurrection
post Nov 10 2006, 09:53 PM
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QUOTE(Vuu Meista @ Nov 9 2006, 11:14 AM) *

You are born, you grow up in a particular environment to beleive what others around you beleive.. all over the world people have Different beleifs... every religion debates that there is a good and evil.. So what makes YOU so special, YOUR religion you were born to beleive in so RIGHT?

Your religion is right, therefore everyone else on this earth is wrong?

I'm just saying that this is not a Christian belief; that is, if you believe in the Bible. Can you be Christian without believing the Bible as Scripture? I don't know.

But anyway, Jesus clearly states that there is Heaven and hell. Would it be very Christian to go against that?


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Connery
post Nov 10 2006, 10:52 PM
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QUOTE(FFmaster08 @ Oct 15 2006, 03:02 PM) *

QUOTE(Shameless @ Oct 15 2006, 10:52 AM) *

QUOTE
This doesn't prove anything. Just because you think differently from other people doesn't mean that you are right and they are wrong.


This doesnt prove anything. I'm pretty sure that none of us here are able to PROVE if there is a heaven and hell, god or no god ! it was just his opinion.
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I like to think there may be a heaven and hell. I'm not gonna spend hours worrying about whats beyond life thou because i wont know till that time comes. then if there is a heaven GREAT. and if there is no heaven, i wont know anything as i will be dead. either way is just fine.

You're right. None of us KNOW that there is a Heaven and hell, but that can't stop us from believing. And by the way, most Christians don't spend hours "worrying" about it, if that's what you meant by your statement.


I do, I spend days hoping there is a heaven cause I don't want to die and be nothing next to nothing. like... nothing. You know that whole time before you were born? That kind of nothing. Where nothing absolutely happens. So nothing that nothing is nothing.

Thank You


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Adrammalech
post Nov 11 2006, 01:20 AM
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i am christian but i dont believe in heaven nor hell that doesnt means i dont believe in god i believe in god but i dont believe in heaven nor Hell only in death you can know if it existence is a forever wandering mystery

This post has been edited by Adrammalech: Nov 11 2006, 01:21 AM


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Resurrection
post Nov 11 2006, 09:51 PM
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QUOTE(Connery @ Nov 10 2006, 05:52 PM) *

I do, I spend days hoping there is a heaven cause I don't want to die and be nothing next to nothing. like... nothing. You know that whole time before you were born? That kind of nothing. Where nothing absolutely happens. So nothing that nothing is nothing.

Thank You

I hope, too. But I was just saying that I think "hoping" is different from "worrying".


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Vuu Meista
post Nov 12 2006, 08:04 AM
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its simple, E* junctional (pie) to the third power - the velocity of the earths movement = heaven. thankyou thankyou
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Ghost
post Nov 12 2006, 08:50 AM
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I for one am christian, protestant. I do believe in a heaven or hell.

I do in a way reject, big bang, not as much evolution, or well the man evolving from a monkey. Main reason, on big bang.
Big Bang theory, is in a crude way of saying it, everything you see here, everything you are, every little atom and the way they joined together. Every aspect of the earth and how if say the axis of the earth shifted 1 degree it would cause a chaotic effect on us. Was really nothing more then a fluke.
Evolution has better grounds then big bang, cause at least this way the way you are and what we've become is actually because we had to adapt to the environment around us.

For adram, i still don't see how you are christian. I mean most religions have someone believing in a God of somesort.
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Paka
post Nov 13 2006, 12:27 PM
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I don't believe in an immortal soul or heaven or hell as commonly held in the traditional sense, as talked about in another thread. But I do believe that a "Resurrection" is definitely possible-- w/o going into pages of exposition, it simply requires an emulation of your exact quantum state; that is your consciousness. Now, the energy required to do that, and for every being that could have possibly existed, would seem impossible to obtain, but there is a mathematical physicist who proposes a model for exactly that, at the end of time... we could be resurrected as emulations in the mind of what could be called God, for a finite amount of real time, but infinite subjective time-- immortality in a paradise.

Interestingly, a resurrection is definitely what the Bible seems to suggest also-- the term "immortal soul" is never used within, actually. Hell is translated usually from Hades or Gehenna, and means the grave. It is stated that "the dead know not." The wages of sin is death (oblivion), not eternal torture. When Christ said to the thief that he would be with him that day in paradise, it could have referred to subjective time-- the time between the instant of your death and your resurrection seems instant even if trillions of years may have passed.

I admit my beliefs fall within an area not accepted by either the religious or atheist. I'm of mostly a scientific mindset, certainly believe in evolution (big into paleontology, actually) and am not into most organized religion, though I like to study it. But there seems to be something more to existence than what pure chance would dictate (the books Mind of God: The Scientific Basis for a Rational World and Life's Solution: Inevitable Humans in a Lonely Universe are good reads for those of a like mind)-- just the odds of certain cosmological parameters being met that allow a universe where life could exist, which could have been anything, are so incredibly small as to be basically impossible. And the Rare Earth Hypothesis seems to show that even with that, getting complex life like us is again almost impossible. Yet, here we are. Maybe a fluke, maybe not... I do think of myself as believing in God (even if not in the traditional sense) and do pray, even if I also question a LOT, lol.

This post has been edited by Paka: Nov 13 2006, 12:34 PM
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Resurrection
post Nov 14 2006, 08:41 PM
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QUOTE(Paka @ Nov 13 2006, 07:27 AM) *

I don't believe in an immortal soul or heaven or hell as commonly held in the traditional sense, as talked about in another thread. But I do believe that a "Resurrection" is definitely possible-- w/o going into pages of exposition, it simply requires an emulation of your exact quantum state; that is your consciousness. Now, the energy required to do that, and for every being that could have possibly existed, would seem impossible to obtain, but there is a mathematical physicist who proposes a model for exactly that, at the end of time... we could be resurrected as emulations in the mind of what could be called God, for a finite amount of real time, but infinite subjective time-- immortality in a paradise.

So you're saying that we acheive a spiritual state through physical means?


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Paka
post Nov 15 2006, 12:19 AM
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QUOTE(FFmaster08 @ Nov 14 2006, 03:41 PM) *

QUOTE(Paka @ Nov 13 2006, 07:27 AM) *

I don't believe in an immortal soul or heaven or hell as commonly held in the traditional sense, as talked about in another thread. But I do believe that a "Resurrection" is definitely possible-- w/o going into pages of exposition, it simply requires an emulation of your exact quantum state; that is your consciousness. Now, the energy required to do that, and for every being that could have possibly existed, would seem impossible to obtain, but there is a mathematical physicist who proposes a model for exactly that, at the end of time... we could be resurrected as emulations in the mind of what could be called God, for a finite amount of real time, but infinite subjective time-- immortality in a paradise.

So you're saying that we acheive a spiritual state through physical means?


Not exactly... as what is definied as spiritual can be open to interpretation. And the many faiths that have embraced the idea of a resurrection or another life didn't have the scientific knowledge to put such ideas in those terms-- that is where spiritual language comes in. And why so much religious teaching is in the form of parable or metaphor. Those against all religion will pick apart the stories faiths tell in their literal meaning, but IMO they, and those who do take it literally, are missing the point entirely-- they are meant to teach lessons in a form the common person can understand.

As I said, I don't actively believe in an immortal soul for man or any form of life, because the idea seems to have been disproven through many means-- but, I have not totally ruled it out either. I remember reading study-- brought up in a book by an author who was agnostic at most-- that showed the ability of some cells to continue to communicate over miles of physical separation. Another study brought up in a psych class I took indicated that individuals could show a small degree of telepathy (though I'm not saying this can't be explained by other means). Or other possibilities. Near death experiences seem to be able to be explained, but perhaps the moment of death is a subjective eternity? Perhaps somehow our consciousnesses aproach the speed of light where time wouldn't pass? But for every person who has such an experience, many don't... I would think that a recreation of our consciousness would be a more likely scenario for us to become immortal.

I consider myself open to different theories and love reading books on these topics. Not to disprove religion, but to update it in light of modern understanding. Sort of like the acceptance that the Earth was not the center of the universe (which was actually a theory much older than Copernicus, but believed to be discredited and thought to go against Biblical teachings). In its current forms, many religions are dying; people may nominally belong to one faith but effectively be atheists (at least, this seems to be the trend in countries with a comparatively high level of education and good economies, and where freedom of thought is allowed or encouraged). Individuals see it either as, "I blindly follow these particular interpretations of these teachings, or I write it all off as bunk." But I like to see a middle ground. cool.gif

This post has been edited by Paka: Nov 15 2006, 12:22 AM
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gamedude
post Nov 15 2006, 01:29 AM
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I believe in Heaven and Hell. I just don't understand how some have posted that they are Christians and don't believe in Heaven or Hell. Or they believe in Heaven and not Hell. How can you not believe in Heaven and Hell if you're a christian?That is one of the fundamental truths is that Heaven and Hell exist starting with the fall of Lucifer and a third of the angels. And as far as saying that you believe in Heaven and not Hell,the Bible says more about Hell than it does Heaven.Jesus spoke more about Hell than Heaven. And last people say if God is so loving why would he send people to Hell? Well number one if we got what we deserved we'd all go to Hell because of the sin of Adam.But he sent his only begotten son to die and pay for our sins.So if you reject him there is no hope of salvation.Think about it if now think about it with an open mind.If you sent your son to die for someone and they totally disrespected that gift wouldn't you be angry?People will say that isn't possible.But think if your child died fighting in a war or protecting someone,and then that person wasn't gratefull and totally disrespected what your child had donefor them you'd be pissed. I know I would.


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Resurrection
post Nov 17 2006, 01:55 AM
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QUOTE(gamedude @ Nov 14 2006, 08:29 PM) *

the Bible says more about Hell than it does Heaven.Jesus spoke more about Hell than Heaven.

I seem to recall Jesus saying, "The Kingdom of Heaven is like this:" a lot.


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